In this episode, we sit down with Lieutenant Mike Nasti to discuss his journey in the fire service, leadership lessons learned the hard way, and the importance of balancing passion for the job with personal growth. From his early days as a volunteer in Maryland to his current role in Prince George’s County, Mike shares insights into the culture of speed and aggressiveness in firefighting, the value of mentorship, and how pivotal failures helped shape his career. We also dive into his projects outside of the firehouse, including his podcast, pipe band involvement, and upcoming ventures.
Mike Nasti is a lieutenant with an urban career department in the Washington, D.C., metropolitan area. Throughout his 17-year career, he has been assigned to the emergency operations command and has been involved in suppression, technical rescue, and hazmat operations. Nasti began his fire service career in 2001 with the Huntingtown (MD) Volunteer Fire Department. Additionally, he is the host and creator of The Tip of the Spear Leadership podcast.
[00:00:00] Welcome to this episode of The Job That Built Me.
[00:00:02] Today we're honored to have Lt. Mike Nasti from the Prince George's County Fire and EMS Department.
[00:00:08] Mike opens up about his early days as a volunteer, his transition into a career firefighter, and the challenges of becoming a leader.
[00:00:16] From humbling failures to transformative lessons, his story is both relatable and inspiring.
[00:00:22] We'll also explore his exciting projects outside the firehouse.
[00:00:26] Like his leadership podcast and participation in a fire service pipe band.
[00:00:31] This is an episode packed with wisdom, humor, and real talk about life in and out of the firehouse.
[00:00:37] Let's get started.
[00:01:14] Where does it say? There it is. I just wanted to make sure it was uploading.
[00:01:19] Alright, so we're uploading in real time. That's good. What are you drinking out of?
[00:01:23] This is my little Yeti. My espresso Yeti.
[00:01:26] Wow. That's fancy.
[00:01:29] I only got this for deployment, so let me go away.
[00:01:32] For f***g. Just so I want to walk around and be like, oh, I got my espresso here.
[00:01:35] You got to put the pinky out.
[00:01:37] Pinky out.
[00:01:37] Yeah. 100%.
[00:01:39] Because the rest of the guys are drinking like little shot glasses or plastic. I'm like...
[00:01:43] Eat it.
[00:01:45] That's fun.
[00:01:47] So, Mike, thanks for joining us.
[00:01:50] Yeah, thanks for having me. I've followed you guys for a while. I've known who you are for a long time.
[00:01:55] And to be on your radar to be a part of this is an honor and I greatly appreciate it. Thank you.
[00:02:01] Now we know you're lying.
[00:02:02] Yeah, we've been...
[00:02:03] Now we know you're lying.
[00:02:05] What's that?
[00:02:06] She said now we know you're lying.
[00:02:07] Now we know you're lying.
[00:02:09] Sure.
[00:02:10] No.
[00:02:11] No.
[00:02:11] I appreciate you being here.
[00:02:13] Yeah, no problem.
[00:02:14] So, tell us a little about yourself and how you got started in the fire service.
[00:02:20] So, I started volunteering in 2001, August of 2001.
[00:02:24] I was a teenager and I was in Southern Maryland in Calvert County.
[00:02:28] And, you know, I went to high school with guys.
[00:02:30] I always wore like the volunteer fire department t-shirts and, you know, thought about it, got interested in it.
[00:02:36] And then I was actually going out to buy a car.
[00:02:40] It was my first car.
[00:02:42] It was like an old S10 pickup truck, like a Chevy S10, like a 95 old square bodies.
[00:02:49] Do you remember those?
[00:02:50] Yeah.
[00:02:51] So, I went to go to this car dealership at Huntingtown.
[00:02:53] So, as I was driving by, I saw a firehouse right there said volunteer fire department, Huntingtown volunteer fire department.
[00:03:00] And I pulled in and it's kind of how I figured out who they were.
[00:03:03] And I walked in and the rest is history, really.
[00:03:09] So, yeah, I mean, 2001 is when I started.
[00:03:11] I got my EMT first.
[00:03:14] And I don't remember why I did that.
[00:03:16] I feel like they needed EMTs or they told you.
[00:03:18] I don't remember.
[00:03:18] But anyway, I did EMT, then got fire school and started living there.
[00:03:23] And, you know, I was there for quite some time before, you know, life kind of took a different direction and took me away from the area.
[00:03:32] So, and that's kind of how I got started.
[00:03:34] Nice.
[00:03:35] Yeah.
[00:03:36] I mean, I kind of liked it too, because I lived in the, I didn't live too far from Huntingtown.
[00:03:42] And what I didn't realize was like, you know, you guys are from New Jersey, so everything's all townships.
[00:03:48] But like, what I thought was kind of cool was, you know, you get a call and it's not like people were always there, but there are guys that like live right around the corner.
[00:03:57] Like, you know, there's a, there's a family, you know, the, the, they're both in the fire department and, you know, not even that long ago, you know, they can hear the siren while they're out working in their house in the cornfield, not in the cornfield, but like on their farms and stuff.
[00:04:12] They hear the siren, they're like, Oh, three long tones. That's a, that's a box. Let me go run in the firehouse. And they come flying in their pickup trucks. Like it was, I just, I don't know. I was immediately hooked. You know, the guys there were, were awesome.
[00:04:24] They were career guys in DC and other, you know, large jurisdictions around, you know, in Southern Maryland or the DC metropolitan area, excuse me. So like Fairfax, Arlington, all that, all those guys were there. And I just, I mean, soaked it all in, hung on everywhere, listened to all the cool war story, you know,
[00:04:42] And looking, looking back, what is it? Was it 20, 24? So 23 years later, you're able to sit back and figure out kind of what was bullshit and what wasn't. And you're kind of, that's still cool.
[00:04:53] Like it still made it fun. Like, you're, you know what I mean? So, you know, and that, that's, you know, that's how I got my start. And then that transitioned into, you know, working in the department I work in now, you know, I, it got me early.
[00:05:06] It got me when I was a teenager and, you know, I've always wanted to be in the fire department. It's something I've always wanted to do, but like being able to do it as a teenager and volunteering, it just, I mean, the hooks got me and they never let go.
[00:05:20] I think that's huge. I, I feel bad for guys. I don't feel like they always don't get the hook early, but once you get the hook, I think it, it's in there for forever.
[00:05:29] Yeah. And, you know, I think, I think it's a big difference between doing it for the short term, as opposed to doing it for the long term. What is it? You ever heard that term, Mr. Right and Mr. Right Now? You ever heard that joke with like women will say that kind of stuff?
[00:05:46] It's kind of the same thing. Like, what, is it cool now? Or is it something that, you know, you're really going to be a, be about? And I don't think there's a lot of people that really make it everything while still understanding how to have a balance of turning it off.
[00:06:02] Yeah.
[00:06:02] You understand what I mean? And I think that's at a whole different level of being into the job and being into the fire department is, you know, yeah. You know, they, people say, you know, buy in and are you into the job or are you just on the job?
[00:06:15] Well, there's a flip side of that for being able to completely turn it off, but you have to be able to turn that off. And I think what I'm, the point that I'm making is to circle back and I apologize for being long winded, but I think when you really get it and the hooks are really in use, when you have that ability to really turn it off, control it rather than the fire department controlling you, if that makes sense.
[00:06:40] Oh, absolutely.
[00:06:42] So where, where do you, where are you currently at now?
[00:06:44] So now I work in the Prince George's County fire MS department in Prince George's County, Maryland.
[00:06:50] Before I go any further, anything I say, my opinions, all that, or all my own, they reflect my department, my shift, my station, the Prince George's County government, the chief of the department, none of that.
[00:07:01] This is all me, only me, nothing else.
[00:07:04] So I work there now.
[00:07:06] I've been there for 17 and a half years.
[00:07:09] I'm currently a lieutenant in Capitol Heights and I'm in charge of a shift of seven people.
[00:07:17] Great group of guys and a great firehouse and a great area to work.
[00:07:22] And yeah, man, that's kind of where I'm at right now.
[00:07:25] Nice.
[00:07:25] Nice.
[00:07:26] What, what's your rig?
[00:07:27] What's that?
[00:07:28] What kind of rig you on?
[00:07:30] So we have a, a Pierce engine.
[00:07:32] We're a single engine, a single engine paramedic engine firehouse.
[00:07:36] So we have, we have a paramedic engine, we have paramedic ambulance, um, a transport unit and a, uh, it's a rehab.
[00:07:43] So like if there's a working fire, long duration incidents, um, technical rescues, all that kind of stuff where there's going to be a lot of exertion of resources, um, or large scale incidents to rehab rehabilitation.
[00:07:55] And it's staffed by one guy 24 seven, who's part of the shift, who's in the rotation of the firefighters.
[00:08:00] And, uh, he drives that unit so you can get out of the elements.
[00:08:04] They can do, um, assessment like blood pressure, temperature, uh, you know, they can check your blood gases, that, that kind of stuff.
[00:08:12] And then, you know, get some water, get out of the heat, get out of the, out of the cold, that kind of thing.
[00:08:17] So we have one of those there.
[00:08:18] So those are the three units we have.
[00:08:20] And we work a 24 72 schedule.
[00:08:23] Nice.
[00:08:24] That's scheduler.
[00:08:25] Yeah.
[00:08:26] Eight days a month is, is I think the golden standard.
[00:08:31] I think I just heard of somebody doing a 48, one 44 or something like that.
[00:08:36] I was like, ah, that might be pretty, that might be nice.
[00:08:41] 48, one 44.
[00:08:42] Usually you hear 48, 96.
[00:08:44] Yeah.
[00:08:45] 48, one 44.
[00:08:46] Wow.
[00:08:47] That's, I can't think of how many hours that is off the top of my head, but that's gotta be five days.
[00:08:51] I think it's two and six.
[00:08:53] Two and six.
[00:08:54] Yeah.
[00:08:55] Yeah.
[00:08:55] But I mean, I don't, I mean, that's going to be call volume dependent, but I don't know if I would want to do 48 hours at work in any department.
[00:09:06] Yeah.
[00:09:07] Like, I mean enough.
[00:09:07] Like, I could not imagine.
[00:09:10] Like, I know federal guys do it and some other places do it.
[00:09:13] But I mean, think about it.
[00:09:14] Like, for example, my kid wasn't feeling that great and came in my room at one 30.
[00:09:21] My alarm goes off at three 30.
[00:09:23] I didn't go back to sleep.
[00:09:25] And then you go to work, you do your full day.
[00:09:27] You kind of just, and you know how it is.
[00:09:28] You just go to work, you just tough it out.
[00:09:29] Drink some coffee, distract yourself.
[00:09:31] Let your brain rot on TikTok to kind of pass the time when you're on, when you have downtime, you're not doing something productive, you know, whatever.
[00:09:37] You go to bed and you wake up, you're like, oh, my relief should be here.
[00:09:42] Oh, I heard the Scott pack going off.
[00:09:44] Let me go see if that's my relief.
[00:09:45] Like, you're excited to go out and check it out and see if you're ready to go home.
[00:09:48] But if you work a 48, you hear that and you're like, oh yeah, I got a whole nother 24 hours.
[00:09:57] I don't know, man.
[00:09:58] That's, that's tough.
[00:10:00] Yeah.
[00:10:00] Yeah.
[00:10:01] I mean, it, a 48, whether you're super busy or super slow, it's either you're going to drive yourself crazy or you're going to be beat to shit.
[00:10:10] Yeah.
[00:10:11] So we're capped at 36 hours and with, you have to have an eight hour break, no more than 36 hours without an eight hour break in a 44 hour period.
[00:10:21] Right.
[00:10:21] So there's other jurisdictions.
[00:10:23] They cap us at 36.
[00:10:25] There's other places around us that can work 48 straight and they have very busy, like.
[00:10:31] Obnoxiously busy firehouses, like 20 call stations or 20 call units.
[00:10:36] And you're going to work 48 hours there.
[00:10:39] Yeah.
[00:10:39] You can do 24 hours of overtime and on a 24, 48 schedule.
[00:10:45] No fricking way.
[00:10:46] None.
[00:10:46] I'm out.
[00:10:47] A hundred percent out.
[00:10:48] Hard out on that.
[00:10:49] It's, it's a lot, man.
[00:10:50] I mean, maybe, and I'm not even old.
[00:10:52] Like I, I couldn't imagine guys that are, you know, fifties, still riding calls, you know,
[00:11:00] whatever.
[00:11:00] And they're working 48 hours straight.
[00:11:02] Like I'm 39 and I don't want to, I don't want to do anything 48 times.
[00:11:07] I don't know how the fed does it.
[00:11:09] I think the feds what, I think the feds what 48 on 48 on 24.
[00:11:13] No, it's 20, uh, 24 on 24 off.
[00:11:17] And then there's a Kelly day in there somewhere.
[00:11:19] Who's that?
[00:11:20] Or, or it's, uh, department of defense.
[00:11:23] So they're like, uh, 24 on 24 off 24 on 24 off.
[00:11:27] And then they get like five days off or whatever.
[00:11:30] Yeah.
[00:11:31] And I'm going to butcher this, but there's some that are 48 72, 48 72.
[00:11:39] And this is the DC metropolitan area.
[00:11:41] So like Washington DC, like military bases.
[00:11:44] Like I live in Frederick County and there's, there's a, um, Fort Detrick, Fort Detrick is
[00:11:51] up here.
[00:11:51] And I think they work at 24 or they know they work, uh, 48 72.
[00:11:58] And then there's some that are one on one off one on three off.
[00:12:03] I screwed it up.
[00:12:04] But anyway, there's a Northern Virginia schedule where they do one on one off one on four off
[00:12:09] or something like, I think it's every third you get a four day and there's a three day.
[00:12:14] And I don't remember now.
[00:12:15] I shouldn't have even brought it up because I didn't know it off the top of my head,
[00:12:17] but I mean, either way doing the one on one off one on one off.
[00:12:20] Too much.
[00:12:21] That you're either coming to work or you're, you're coming from work.
[00:12:24] Yeah.
[00:12:24] And you, you do a 24, seven, we do 24, 72.
[00:12:28] So like swapping your opposite day is awesome.
[00:12:32] Cause one dude can cover your entire shift, but inevitably at some point you're going to
[00:12:37] do one on one off and it's going to be absolutely terrible.
[00:12:41] Like, like, you know, like I, even when I was younger, like when I, when I was younger,
[00:12:46] it wasn't that bad, but even then I'm kind of like, Ooh, I'm at work every day.
[00:12:51] For almost a week.
[00:12:53] If you do a middle day, I mean, you're physically at work every single day for almost five days
[00:12:58] straight going or coming, you know?
[00:13:01] And like, I live 71 miles from where I work, you know, and it's not bad.
[00:13:06] I mean, I leave early enough.
[00:13:07] So I mean, it's like an hour and 10 minutes hour ish.
[00:13:10] And it's not that bad.
[00:13:11] It's really not that bad, but coming home, coming home with rush hour traffic, it was
[00:13:16] an hour and 40 minutes, hour 30 minutes.
[00:13:18] And then, I mean, what time do you guys were leave?
[00:13:22] We're both eight.
[00:13:23] Eight.
[00:13:24] So we were, so we were leave at seven.
[00:13:26] There is a stark difference in leaving my firehouse at six and then 630.
[00:13:34] Dramatic difference.
[00:13:36] You're talking like an hour and 10 minutes to an hour and 45 minutes right off Jump Street.
[00:13:42] Wow.
[00:13:43] Yeah.
[00:13:43] It just so rough.
[00:13:45] Yeah.
[00:13:46] There's an accident.
[00:13:47] I mean, it is, but you know, you're also going home.
[00:13:49] So it's kind of like meh.
[00:13:50] Yeah.
[00:13:50] Now, if it was like going to work, like I had to, I don't even know how this would happen,
[00:13:54] but like you go from one station in Northside County to the other station at the South side
[00:13:59] of the County and it's a 45 minute drive because of traffic, you know, it's just, and it's
[00:14:05] too much.
[00:14:06] Then there's a Capitol Beltway.
[00:14:07] I don't know if you guys know much about that or 95.
[00:14:09] They're terrible.
[00:14:10] Oh yeah.
[00:14:11] Brutal.
[00:14:12] I try to avoid it.
[00:14:14] Yeah.
[00:14:15] Just go around.
[00:14:16] Take the long way around.
[00:14:18] You know, maybe I need to start going through Virginia on my way to work and skip it all
[00:14:22] together.
[00:14:22] I don't know.
[00:14:24] How big is PG County?
[00:14:26] I'm going to get roasted for not knowing this, but it's, it's large.
[00:14:29] It's one of the largest counties in the state.
[00:14:31] I don't remember how many square miles it is.
[00:14:33] I probably should know that.
[00:14:35] It's big.
[00:14:36] Yeah.
[00:14:36] It's big.
[00:14:37] I was trying to, I was doing some research a few years ago.
[00:14:39] I forgot.
[00:14:40] I, I did know the number.
[00:14:41] I want to say, I don't know.
[00:14:45] Is it like 300 square miles?
[00:14:47] I was getting, I thought it was a little bit bigger than that.
[00:14:51] I was trying to compare it to the county that we live in and work in.
[00:14:54] What county do you live in?
[00:14:56] We're both in Monmouth County.
[00:14:57] Monmouth County, New Jersey, huh?
[00:15:00] I moved south.
[00:15:01] I'm an ocean county.
[00:15:02] Well, yeah.
[00:15:02] I should say we both work in Monmouth County.
[00:15:05] Yeah.
[00:15:05] I defected.
[00:15:06] In my mind, I was thinking 400.
[00:15:08] It's, it's 483 square miles.
[00:15:11] Prince George's County.
[00:15:11] Okay.
[00:15:12] What's the population?
[00:15:13] It's got to be like.
[00:15:15] It's a lot.
[00:15:17] Half a million.
[00:15:19] At least half a million.
[00:15:21] 947,000 in the 2023 census or 2023.
[00:15:26] It says population census.
[00:15:28] Yeah.
[00:15:29] I don't know.
[00:15:30] I don't know.
[00:15:32] But those are the, if I'm reading this right, those are the residents, not visitors.
[00:15:36] It's not your daily population.
[00:15:38] Right.
[00:15:38] I mean, yeah.
[00:15:39] I mean, there, I mean, there's well, there's got to be well over.
[00:15:42] And then you, you also count hundreds of thousands of people that travel through the
[00:15:46] county to get to work.
[00:15:47] On the roads and everything.
[00:15:48] It's got to, it's got to be double that.
[00:15:50] Come from Southern Maryland, you know, all these other areas that come through Prince
[00:15:55] George's County to get to DC, Virginia, you know, all roads.
[00:15:59] I don't want to say all roads lead through it, but if you go on the Capitol Beltway, you're
[00:16:02] coming right through it.
[00:16:03] Right.
[00:16:03] Unless you're, you know, going on the opposite way.
[00:16:07] Excuse me.
[00:16:08] What year did you start in PJ?
[00:16:10] 2007.
[00:16:11] So I'm.
[00:16:12] Oh, you've been there for it all.
[00:16:14] The good stuff.
[00:16:14] For a while.
[00:16:15] Been there for a while, but it felt like it's, I felt like the blink of an eye almost.
[00:16:21] You know, you wake up and you're like, oh shit, I got 17 and a half years on or whatever
[00:16:26] it is.
[00:16:27] When do you, uh, when can, what's the earliest you can go?
[00:16:30] I can go in 27.
[00:16:32] I'll be eligible to go in 27.
[00:16:34] Now I don't see myself doing that because when that happens, my kid will be 10.
[00:16:39] Okay.
[00:16:40] And I don't know if I would survive, physically survive my house.
[00:16:48] I'd be murdered if I retired at 41 or whatever it is.
[00:16:54] Like there's no, I, I say that in jest, but, um, I'm eligible to go in 27, but there's no
[00:17:00] point in me going.
[00:17:01] I mean, I'm still fairly young and good shape.
[00:17:02] Like I'm in better shape now than I think I've been in a long time.
[00:17:06] I feel great.
[00:17:07] And we have, um, a three-year drop with, they're working to a five-year drop now.
[00:17:13] I think that just got, it just got approved for our newest contract and it's just got to
[00:17:16] go through the, through the county process.
[00:17:18] So typically people wait for their two highest years.
[00:17:21] So the two highest years of your pay, which are typically your 21st and 22nd year.
[00:17:26] So for the drop program, 22 and a half years, you're eligible to enter it.
[00:17:30] And then you write out three years, which puts you at 25 and a half ish.
[00:17:34] And then you can buy out, um, uh, credit with your leave, how much leave you have sick leave,
[00:17:40] annual leave.
[00:17:41] And then however many, and how much annual leave spilled into sick after you hit the cap
[00:17:44] of annual leave cap at the end of every year.
[00:17:48] And then, um, you can buy back time for months of service.
[00:17:50] So I think it's 1040 hours of annual that spilled over the cap translates to like two
[00:18:01] years of service or something, three years.
[00:18:03] I don't remember.
[00:18:04] I'm going to, I'm screwing that up.
[00:18:05] But anyway, um, you can buy back time to get to the closest max to the, to your max of
[00:18:10] my class.
[00:18:12] I can retire, uh, 85% is the max absolute max with time and all that.
[00:18:18] Um, 20 years, it's 65%.
[00:18:21] That's awesome.
[00:18:22] Wow.
[00:18:22] So it's, yeah, it's good.
[00:18:24] 65 till 30.
[00:18:25] Yeah.
[00:18:25] It's a little, little different up here.
[00:18:28] Yeah.
[00:18:29] And you know, it's, it's just the, the strength of the union, um, over time and fighting for
[00:18:35] benefits and stuff like that.
[00:18:37] And I'm not going to get into the, the union or politics or anything like that, but I do
[00:18:40] think, um, we have a good retirement for my class and I'll just leave it at that.
[00:18:48] That's awesome.
[00:18:49] If you guys, so you got on in 07, when'd you get promoted?
[00:18:52] The summer of 2015.
[00:18:57] So nine years ago now.
[00:18:58] No.
[00:18:59] I don't know how far that was longer.
[00:19:00] Yeah.
[00:19:00] Cause I got, I got hired in, in 2015.
[00:19:03] I just started, I just started my 10th year.
[00:19:05] Yeah.
[00:19:05] So yeah.
[00:19:06] About 10 years.
[00:19:07] Um, yeah.
[00:19:08] 20, uh, 2015.
[00:19:10] Um, I was acting for a while before that.
[00:19:12] So for us, we have to get, we have to be paramedics to promote.
[00:19:17] So I did my medic time.
[00:19:18] I was on and off a medic unit at like 360 days or something like that.
[00:19:26] I mean, it was just, I mean, just untucked, just under a year.
[00:19:30] And I went acting.
[00:19:31] Well, they, I got told I was going to OCA, an officer candidate school and, um, then acting.
[00:19:38] So I went acting into, uh, Berwyn Heights.
[00:19:40] They're on the North side of the County.
[00:19:42] And I went there, um, in June, uh, yeah, middle of June.
[00:19:46] And I got, ended up getting promoted in August of that year.
[00:19:49] So I was acting from June to August, got promoted and found my way to Capitol Heights.
[00:19:54] My wife got pregnant.
[00:19:55] So I had to get off day work and, uh, landed on my feet.
[00:20:00] Yeah.
[00:20:00] Land on my feet there.
[00:20:01] So I've been there for almost eight years now.
[00:20:03] How was that transition?
[00:20:06] From firefighter to officer.
[00:20:07] Yeah.
[00:20:08] Terrible.
[00:20:09] I mean, if I could go back in time, I think the first thing I would do would probably be
[00:20:17] to wring my own neck of what the hell were you thinking?
[00:20:22] You know, cause I think I underestimated how important the road work is leading up to your
[00:20:28] promotion.
[00:20:28] That's one thing that I know I underestimated and I, and I always took for granted of your
[00:20:36] interview and your resume for being an officer starts from when you're enter into the department.
[00:20:42] Right.
[00:20:43] And, and, and, you know, 17 and a half years into my career, almost 10 years as a Lieutenant,
[00:20:49] I'm still paying for actions and things that I've done and bridges that I've burned.
[00:20:55] Now I'm still paying for those things.
[00:20:57] So it made the transition difficult of going in thinking I'm just going to be one of the guys.
[00:21:03] Hey, you know, I was a firefighter yesterday and I'm a Lieutenant today and let's go in,
[00:21:08] let's laugh and joke and go to have some fires and have some fun.
[00:21:11] And I was sorely mistaken of the undertaking that I had in front of me.
[00:21:18] And, and, you know, looking back on it, not realizing I was standing at the, the base of a mountain of
[00:21:26] stupidity from the beginning of my seven years of my career, just being in, not being what I should
[00:21:33] have been and walking in thinking just because I'm a, I have a rank now, you're going to listen to me
[00:21:38] and I'm going to laugh and joke with you, but then I still need to be serious too.
[00:21:40] And I'm going to jump in on the making fun of people, but then you still need to take me serious
[00:21:44] too. And I'm going to get lost on calls, but you still need to take me serious too.
[00:21:48] And I'm not going to put any effort into it because you should be doing this.
[00:21:51] You're the firefighter, but then I need you to listen to me too.
[00:21:54] You know? So it was tough. It really was.
[00:21:59] So did you get made out of the same house?
[00:22:02] No. So I worked in a, it was a buoy station.
[00:22:05] I did my medic, my medic time by myself there.
[00:22:09] So like, I'm sure this is kind of universal, but you become a medic or whatever.
[00:22:13] And you have to go work with like a preceptor, some type of program to educate you and teach
[00:22:19] you how to be a paramedic.
[00:22:21] And moving forward, then they send you off to your own ALS unit.
[00:22:24] We call them paramedic ambulances.
[00:22:26] So it's one ALS provider, one firefighter.
[00:22:29] It's the normal staffing.
[00:22:30] Now you could have another medic on overtime or whatever.
[00:22:32] Anybody could work it, but it's one staffed ALS provider, one staffed DLS provider.
[00:22:39] So I was there for a while doing my medic time.
[00:22:43] And then I got promoted out of there.
[00:22:45] So I got promoted basically off a medic unit.
[00:22:49] And so for us, and I think this is kind of universal.
[00:22:52] You don't, if you get promoted, you have to leave where you're at.
[00:22:55] I think the military does that too.
[00:22:56] Like you, you need to leave quite frankly.
[00:22:59] One, because if you're not an officer already and you have an officer, you got to go somewhere.
[00:23:03] You know what I mean?
[00:23:04] I think I've seen it once or twice where you could work at a firehouse on a shift as a medic or a firefighter paramedic.
[00:23:14] And then like you get moved to C shift because there's a vacancy.
[00:23:18] They have to put you somewhere.
[00:23:20] You already worked there.
[00:23:21] They're going to put you there acting.
[00:23:22] Now you have a whole firehouse that just knows you as the firefighter or the fire medic.
[00:23:26] And now you're in charge and you're working on your old shift and all that.
[00:23:29] And it's really not a big deal at some point, you know, in a short term or like overtime or swap, no big deal.
[00:23:36] But long term, I don't know.
[00:23:39] I mean, the right people in the right places with the right faces, I think you could make it work.
[00:23:45] But as a whole, I don't see it being successful.
[00:23:49] And I'm actually kind of glad they make you.
[00:23:51] Yeah, I think that's a good thing.
[00:23:52] And I mean, it depends how big your department is as well.
[00:23:57] Like we have one house.
[00:23:59] The only thing they could do is put you on a different shift.
[00:24:02] We're all still in the same house.
[00:24:05] But and it also it kind of it's hard.
[00:24:10] It shows that some of these guys that before they get promoted, they were not all into the job.
[00:24:17] And then as soon as they get promoted, they want to be a fireman and they want to be they want to be in charge.
[00:24:21] And now you're like after 13 years, now you want to be a fireman.
[00:24:26] So.
[00:24:29] Yeah.
[00:24:30] And, you know, that actually kind of segues into, you know, even when you're the officer as well.
[00:24:36] Like.
[00:24:37] I think I never really fully grasped.
[00:24:42] And this is I don't think a lot of this really clicked until recently, but I never fully grasped.
[00:24:48] How much people remember everything, everything.
[00:24:52] And this is just like they may not say it to you.
[00:24:54] You may never hear about something you did five years ago ever until it's like the worst possible time.
[00:25:00] And they're going to drop that hammer right on.
[00:25:02] Well, yeah.
[00:25:02] You remember you did this and said this.
[00:25:03] That's pretty, you know, that's pretty bad.
[00:25:05] Like that doesn't help your case.
[00:25:06] It's like, well, shit, I think I haven't thought about that in 10 years.
[00:25:09] And you remember it.
[00:25:10] You know, that that's the wildest thing is they they can make all the mistakes in the world.
[00:25:14] They can't remember how to get to, you know, whatever building you could ask them.
[00:25:18] But they know every damn thing you've ever done and every mistake you've ever made.
[00:25:22] It's kind of interesting how that works, isn't it?
[00:25:25] Yeah.
[00:25:25] Yeah.
[00:25:25] I mean, it brings up reputation.
[00:25:27] Reputation is everything.
[00:25:28] You see, I'm conflicted on that.
[00:25:30] There's been people that cringed, cringed to work with.
[00:25:37] Going with an open mind.
[00:25:39] They're great.
[00:25:40] Yeah, they're not that bad of a guy.
[00:25:42] Yeah.
[00:25:43] Well, there's been there's been several times where like, you know, I've heard about a person and I got to know that person.
[00:25:48] And I'm like, I don't I don't know what you're talking about.
[00:25:52] Like I've been, you know, I have now have experience with this person.
[00:25:55] They're great.
[00:25:56] I've had a great experience with them.
[00:25:59] You know, there was one time and I can't really get into too many details, but long story short, I thought they were great.
[00:26:05] We're running a call.
[00:26:06] It was awesome.
[00:26:08] Get along.
[00:26:08] Having a great time.
[00:26:10] We're going on this call.
[00:26:11] This guy knows where he's going.
[00:26:12] Great.
[00:26:13] Hit a T intersection.
[00:26:14] Hey, do we left or right?
[00:26:16] Mistake on me.
[00:26:16] I didn't look it up because I thought you were good.
[00:26:18] 100% my fault.
[00:26:19] All of it.
[00:26:20] I thought you knew where you were going.
[00:26:22] We went left and should have gone right.
[00:26:23] We passed other calls going to the box.
[00:26:25] Other units going to the box.
[00:26:27] Oh, that's the worst.
[00:26:28] Yeah.
[00:26:29] Yep.
[00:26:30] And you know what?
[00:26:31] Never good.
[00:26:31] No.
[00:26:32] Never again.
[00:26:34] And you know whose fault that was?
[00:26:36] Me.
[00:26:38] You know, there's been plenty of times I've told people, hey, they're like, hey, I got it.
[00:26:41] I got it.
[00:26:42] I'm going to look it up.
[00:26:42] And I trust you.
[00:26:43] But I'm and this is on overtime.
[00:26:45] This isn't my I'm make it very clear.
[00:26:47] Not my shift.
[00:26:48] Not my guys.
[00:26:50] Overtime, other places in my experiences.
[00:26:55] Where I thought we were good.
[00:26:58] We were not good.
[00:27:00] But it never seems to be on that person.
[00:27:02] It's always on you, the officer.
[00:27:03] And you look like an idiot.
[00:27:06] And it's a great feeling.
[00:27:08] I say that with sarcasm.
[00:27:10] But, you know, but the point that I'm making is, you know, no matter if it's really, really good or really, really bad, do yourself a favor and make your own opinions.
[00:27:20] Because there's people that I'm friends with that are, you know, I don't want to say not popular, but like there's people that I get along with that are great, great human beings on like a personal level.
[00:27:30] And then you hear about them at work and like people trash them and it's like, well, do you even know this guy?
[00:27:37] Like, because all the crap you say is not anything remotely to what I've experienced.
[00:27:41] Vice versa.
[00:27:42] You know, you think someone's a stud and they're done.
[00:27:44] And I know I've been on both sides of that fence with people who know me.
[00:27:48] Either are great, bad, probably some in between.
[00:27:50] I mean, I'm no, you know, no better than those opinions from other people either.
[00:27:55] You know, I'm sure that I've sit on both sides of that fence with individuals and, you know, whoever that I've worked with.
[00:28:02] I think that's, but I think that's also a normal thing.
[00:28:06] Just in life, if that makes sense.
[00:28:09] Yeah, absolutely.
[00:28:11] I'm pretty happy when I got to my place, they actually said that.
[00:28:14] Listen, you're going to hear about different guys.
[00:28:16] You're going to hear this and hear that.
[00:28:17] But when you get here, you make your own opinion.
[00:28:20] Give it time, make your own opinion.
[00:28:21] Don't listen to any bullshit.
[00:28:23] Just figure out people for who you think they are.
[00:28:26] I go from there and it's paid dividends.
[00:28:28] And we do the same thing now with our guys coming in.
[00:28:30] It's just make your own opinion first.
[00:28:32] And you don't want to discredit people just because of a rumor or discredit people because of popularity.
[00:28:37] Right?
[00:28:38] Yeah.
[00:28:39] You know, you need to validate everyone, but don't discount anyone.
[00:28:44] Some of the biggest lessons I think I've ever learned in my career were from the most unexpected places.
[00:28:51] People that I, I don't want to say took for granted, but, you know, I think this is just human nature.
[00:28:57] There's people where you're like, does this guy know?
[00:29:00] You know what I mean?
[00:29:01] This guy's got a shitty attitude.
[00:29:02] What the hell are you going to teach me?
[00:29:04] Why would I listen to anything you have to say?
[00:29:06] And you just immediately discount them.
[00:29:07] There's been plenty of times, more times than I want to admit, where I was in that opinion of people and I got burned.
[00:29:16] Like I just flat out missed an opportunity to learn.
[00:29:21] And long story short, they were right in what they tried to teach me, they were right.
[00:29:25] And I never, I never took the opportunity to appreciate that in that moment.
[00:29:33] And, you know, it's a big lesson.
[00:29:36] That's, I guess what I'm getting at with that is that's one of those big things that I learned as far as the transition we were talking.
[00:29:44] Yeah.
[00:29:44] So in addition to your duties as a lieutenant, and so you've got some other stuff going on in the fire service as well, right?
[00:29:53] I do.
[00:29:54] So tell us a little about that.
[00:29:56] How'd that come to fruition?
[00:29:57] What's that?
[00:29:58] So how did that come to fruition?
[00:30:01] Well, I do a podcast.
[00:30:04] I got a couple other irons in the fire that I'm not quite ready to let out just yet because they're, I won't say they're not confirmed, but not enough, not enough yet.
[00:30:20] Two big things, and I think they're going to be absolutely fantastic.
[00:30:23] Just not yet.
[00:30:53] Yeah.
[00:30:54] I was good.
[00:30:55] And on the second fire, I got to the point where, you know, I was like, I'm just going to take my stuff off.
[00:30:59] I'm going to walk over to the engine and I'm going to, I'm going to ignore it and I'm going to be fine.
[00:31:04] I'm going to sit down.
[00:31:05] I'm going to relax.
[00:31:05] We're going to be good.
[00:31:07] And that was not the case.
[00:31:08] The minute I took my stuff off, that was the worst mistake I could have done because everything just locked up and I ended up going to the hospital.
[00:31:14] I had 208 discs in my neck, sprained my back, sprained my neck, sprained my shoulder, like all the fun stuff.
[00:31:22] So I tripped on ice and fell forward in my head.
[00:31:25] You know, the ridiculousness, the scorpion.
[00:31:29] Yeah.
[00:31:30] That's basically what I did.
[00:31:31] Oh, man.
[00:31:32] Oh, dude.
[00:31:32] Oof.
[00:31:33] Like fell down, the scott pack hit me in the back of the head, smashed my face down.
[00:31:38] I thought I knocked my teeth out.
[00:31:39] I had just had slush and dirty slush behind an abandoned school filled in my mouth.
[00:31:45] So that was great.
[00:31:47] Good Lord.
[00:31:48] You know, I was worried like I knocked my, I thought I knocked my teeth out.
[00:31:51] Like it just, the dumbest thing in the world.
[00:31:55] You know what I mean?
[00:31:56] Like what the hell's wrong with me?
[00:31:58] It's always the dumbest thing.
[00:32:00] Oh, my God.
[00:32:00] But looking back on it, you know, I kind of, you know, I laugh about it now.
[00:32:05] And that kind of segued into it.
[00:32:10] And another life event happened that I'm not going to talk about on here.
[00:32:14] I can tell you guys after the recording.
[00:32:16] But another major life event where I was kind of in a weird spot in my mind and in life in general.
[00:32:23] And I had a lot of time off.
[00:32:25] I wasn't working.
[00:32:26] And I needed something to do with my mind, to keep my mind straight, to stay on the straight and narrow.
[00:32:30] I guess, to keep my mind clear.
[00:32:34] And I started just writing stuff down.
[00:32:37] And I just, I was like, well, this would be kind of cool.
[00:32:40] And, you know, I got really nothing else to do.
[00:32:42] Anyway, let me go.
[00:32:42] I don't know.
[00:32:43] Let me try an Instagram page and talk about all the times I've screwed things up.
[00:32:48] And, you know, and that's how it kind of came about.
[00:32:55] What I guess I underestimated was looking back, I think it's a lot more relatable than I realized.
[00:33:03] And it just exploded.
[00:33:07] And then I got ousted.
[00:33:09] And then people found out who I was.
[00:33:10] And I was trying to hide it because I didn't have the confidence to be proud of it.
[00:33:16] And I don't, you know, I don't know why I felt that way.
[00:33:19] I'm not really sure.
[00:33:21] But looking back on it, it worked out.
[00:33:24] And, you know, then I got invited on to a Kitchen Table podcast, I think it was called.
[00:33:32] And one of the guys that follows me on Instagram is like, you should try a podcast.
[00:33:36] Why don't you do a podcast in addition to your Instagram?
[00:33:38] And you can talk about the stuff that you post.
[00:33:39] I'm like, I'm not doing that.
[00:33:40] It's dumb.
[00:33:41] And I thought about it.
[00:33:42] I'm like, what the hell else do I got to lose?
[00:33:44] Why not?
[00:33:45] Yeah.
[00:33:45] Right?
[00:33:45] Absolutely.
[00:33:46] So I did it.
[00:33:47] And that too has taken off.
[00:33:52] And, you know, it's a lot of learning.
[00:33:54] I made a lot of mistakes with it.
[00:33:56] It's clashed with work.
[00:33:57] It's clashed with people in the podcast and social media community.
[00:34:07] Just typical.
[00:34:09] Always.
[00:34:09] Always.
[00:34:10] You know, it's always wild, man.
[00:34:14] That whole saying, what is it?
[00:34:17] Snake at your feet is better than a snake in the bush or whatever it is.
[00:34:20] Yeah.
[00:34:21] I learned that lesson pretty starkly.
[00:34:24] In not such a great way.
[00:34:27] And, you know, and, you know, I say that, but it's like 99% fantastic and great.
[00:34:36] And 1% kind of keeping you level.
[00:34:39] And, you know, just when you're getting cocky and you kind of think you got it all figured
[00:34:42] out and everything's good to go, reality comes by and just kicks you in the teeth and, you
[00:34:47] know, kind of puts you back in your place.
[00:34:48] So I had that a little bit with this.
[00:34:49] And, you know, those are the kind of the projects that I have.
[00:34:51] The other two that I can't mention, I'm really, really excited.
[00:34:54] I just don't want to put the carton on.
[00:34:57] Oh, drink it.
[00:34:58] Just yet.
[00:34:58] Yeah.
[00:34:59] So it's going to be good.
[00:35:00] It's going to be, I don't know if it's going to be big for me, but I think it's going to
[00:35:05] be a new level, like a huge level of something I've never anticipated before.
[00:35:10] So I'm excited for that.
[00:35:12] Um, I also, um, I'm in a pipes and drums band, which is pretty cool.
[00:35:18] Pretty, pretty rad.
[00:35:20] I enjoy that a lot.
[00:35:22] Um, it's the fire brigade pipes and drums of greater Baltimore.
[00:35:25] So I play the bass drum, like the big, the big bass drum, um, heartbeat of the band, you
[00:35:31] know, always waiting on the pipers and for there to just keep time and keep everything
[00:35:35] in line.
[00:35:36] And it's, it's a lot of fun.
[00:35:37] I really, you know, it's, it's not anything I ever thought I would get into.
[00:35:41] Um, my father-in-law, he was into it.
[00:35:44] He was one of the charter members there and he ended up passing away from a mesothelioma
[00:35:49] um, in 2017.
[00:35:51] And I remember him always trying to get me to join.
[00:35:53] And I'm like, I don't know if that's something I like, you know what I mean?
[00:35:57] Like, I don't want to say unsure of it, but it's, it just, I don't know.
[00:36:00] I just, it's not something I wanted to, I know I wasn't ready to jump in with both feet
[00:36:04] and he died.
[00:36:04] And then I kind of thought about it and I just, I jumped in and I never looked back.
[00:36:07] And I'm not as active in it as I, as I wanted to be.
[00:36:11] We've, you know, just, you know, how life goes, it kind of pulls you away.
[00:36:14] So, um, you know, I'm still consistent, but definitely not what I want to be.
[00:36:19] So, but I still have it and it's something that I really love and enjoy.
[00:36:22] And I think it also is nice to have the ways to, those things are really nice to, uh, detach
[00:36:28] and unplug from just everything.
[00:36:31] Music's a good way to unplug from life, you know, and, and gives you a different side
[00:36:37] of the fire service.
[00:36:38] Cause it's all, it's a fire service band.
[00:36:40] So they're, they're all guys from fire, from fire departments, guys from Baltimore city,
[00:36:43] quite a few people from Baltimore city, a lot of Howard County in Maryland.
[00:36:47] Um, myself and another guy from Prince George's County were in the band and it's fun.
[00:36:52] Like you, you go there, everybody's in a great mood.
[00:36:54] They love music.
[00:36:55] You know, the music helps, helps me remember my father-in-law, you know, I miss him.
[00:36:59] And, uh, it's kind of a cool way to stay connected, you know?
[00:37:02] So it puts some, uh, skin in the game, but it, um, it's just a nice, uh, bring you back
[00:37:10] to center kind of thing.
[00:37:11] Those three projects, those three things in the fire service that I'm doing kind of brings
[00:37:17] you back to center balance.
[00:37:21] And I think, uh, the band's probably fun, right?
[00:37:23] Cause not, not everybody understands that pipe bands are fun.
[00:37:26] It's not always said there's a lot of fun.
[00:37:29] Yeah.
[00:37:29] No.
[00:37:29] And that, you know, that's a great point.
[00:37:31] It's more often fun than it is sad.
[00:37:32] I mean, there, I wouldn't, you know, I wouldn't even say sad.
[00:37:36] I would say somber sad.
[00:37:38] Sombra.
[00:37:38] Is that a slap?
[00:37:39] Is that a slap?
[00:37:39] Mm-hmm.
[00:37:40] It, it'll give you perspective.
[00:37:42] I mean, there's, it's just like anything else in light.
[00:37:44] There's a lot of unfun parts, but there's a lot of really, there's, that band is so much
[00:37:49] fun.
[00:37:50] There's so much awesome stuff that outweighs that, uh, outweighs the funerals and memorials.
[00:37:57] March is a good time of year.
[00:38:00] March.
[00:38:00] March.
[00:38:01] Yeah.
[00:38:02] So we do a, uh, coach bus.
[00:38:05] We get a, like a large coach bus and we do a tour.
[00:38:09] So I, I don't know if this is a fact.
[00:38:11] I haven't really looked into it, but I think I'm right.
[00:38:14] There's only one Guinness brewery in the United States of America.
[00:38:17] Baltimore.
[00:38:19] Baltimore.
[00:38:20] Right.
[00:38:20] We go there every year.
[00:38:23] To my knowledge, there's no pipe band, no fire service pipe band.
[00:38:27] Definitely.
[00:38:28] That plays at a Guinness brewery in the United States on St. Patrick's day, except for us.
[00:38:34] Oh.
[00:38:34] Which is amazing.
[00:38:36] I don't know if you've ever been to the Iron Gate brewery in Baltimore.
[00:38:39] I've not.
[00:38:40] No.
[00:38:41] I've been to St.
[00:38:41] James gate.
[00:38:42] That one.
[00:38:43] You need to put it on your list.
[00:38:45] You need to call me when you go and I'll meet you there.
[00:38:47] It is.
[00:38:49] Amazing.
[00:38:50] It's, I mean, it's, it's, it's Guinness.
[00:38:52] It's amazing.
[00:38:53] And just the atmosphere, like they have, it's not a tent city, but like, they have like a
[00:38:56] little, uh, a village that they put up like a pop-up village for St. Patrick's day.
[00:39:01] And that place is absolutely bumming.
[00:39:06] And then we get there and you play.
[00:39:08] It's, it's so, it's so cool.
[00:39:09] So we go there and then probably, I think it's six stops.
[00:39:13] We started at Irish bar, hit Looney's, um, place called Daniel's, which is like an outside
[00:39:21] air bar.
[00:39:22] Like bikers pull up and sit outside and the seats are out.
[00:39:24] It's really cool.
[00:39:26] Um, and then we ended, when we finished, it's called Kelsey's, um, Irish pub.
[00:39:30] Um, so we start there, finish there.
[00:39:32] It's an entire bit.
[00:39:33] Like you'll get it to the Kelsey's at like 10 o'clock and you get back at like 6 PM.
[00:39:39] Like it's, it is a full day thing.
[00:39:42] It is absolutely amazing.
[00:39:46] So March is, March is a lot of fun.
[00:39:48] March is very, very busy.
[00:39:49] So we have the Baltimore city parade as well.
[00:39:52] Um, which any St. Patrick's day in a major city, if you've, I don't know if you guys have
[00:39:58] done those or not, they're awesome.
[00:40:00] They're just, there's so much fun.
[00:40:02] And then you surround yourself with great people trying to keep the memory of a great
[00:40:06] person alive.
[00:40:06] It's just, it's awesome.
[00:40:09] A hundred percent.
[00:40:10] I have a little perspective into that.
[00:40:11] My, uh, my grandfather came over from Scotland in like 1960 something and started a pipe band
[00:40:17] in New Jersey.
[00:40:18] So like our whole family's involved in a pipe band and that's by far one of my favorite
[00:40:24] things to get involved with when I have the time to stop by and like go to a parade or
[00:40:28] go to an event.
[00:40:29] It's what a good time.
[00:40:31] Oh, it's fun.
[00:40:33] You know, like you're around guys from the job, you got around like fire department people,
[00:40:37] but you don't talk about the fire department, but you have that common connection.
[00:40:43] And I think that's the nicest part is you get the, this is going to sound bad.
[00:40:47] You get the benefits of the job without having to deal with the bullshit of the job.
[00:40:51] Absolutely.
[00:40:52] You know what I mean?
[00:40:53] Like to me, I think the fire service brings out the greatest in people, especially when
[00:40:58] it comes to times you take care of each other.
[00:41:00] If, if, you know, if you need to be picked up or, you know, you're, you know, you're
[00:41:04] struggling on your instrument and somebody comes in and they help you, you know, I mean, they're
[00:41:07] the musicians that I am in the band with are second to none in the world.
[00:41:12] They are absolutely dedicated and amazing and they're great people, you know, so you get
[00:41:17] all that great stuff and you don't have to deal with it.
[00:41:20] It's not like you're, you know, Hey, let's go run this lift assist when we're supposed to
[00:41:24] be tuning your back pipes.
[00:41:27] You know what I mean?
[00:41:28] Like you don't have to deal with that, but you still get, Oh, you, you know, you, you
[00:41:31] got this going on.
[00:41:33] All right, let me help.
[00:41:33] Let me drop what I'm doing right now to come help you until your crisis is fixed.
[00:41:38] Like it's, it's there.
[00:41:40] Like the, I don't like saying the word brotherhood, but camaraderie, the community, the tight
[00:41:47] knit community is there.
[00:41:48] There's nothing wrong with the brotherhood, but I do think there's the brotherhood is
[00:41:52] saved in my opinion for the fire houses and guys in and from the fire houses.
[00:41:57] That's, I don't know if I want to say sacred, but like that's a firehouse.
[00:42:03] When you're away from the firehouse, I think it's a community.
[00:42:07] I really do.
[00:42:08] I don't know.
[00:42:09] Maybe I'm off in the field.
[00:42:10] No, I can appreciate that.
[00:42:13] So let's wrap it back to, uh, let's get back into you.
[00:42:17] Do you remember your first fire?
[00:42:19] My first fire ever.
[00:42:21] Um, I was a volunteer.
[00:42:24] It was in our, it was in our first do and it was, I can't, I'm drawn, I think it was
[00:42:33] a split level.
[00:42:34] Might it?
[00:42:35] Yeah.
[00:42:36] It was a split level house.
[00:42:37] So if you look at the house, it has, um, the single level to the left, the double level
[00:42:42] to the right, double hung windows.
[00:42:44] So you walk in to your right for this particular house with the orientation to the right would
[00:42:49] be six feet into your right will be a split stairs, six steps down, six steps up, steps
[00:42:54] down, go to, um, the lower level.
[00:42:57] There's, you can call it a basement.
[00:42:58] And then the level below that's the sub basement, the steps to go up are going to be, um, your
[00:43:05] bedrooms.
[00:43:06] The bedroom is walking right into the bedroom hallway, you know, and however the house
[00:43:09] is built, you have bedrooms left and right bathroom.
[00:43:12] And then a straight in is going to be a kitchen and to your left kitchen dining room and to
[00:43:16] your left would be like a den.
[00:43:17] So you'd probably walk down two or three steps and you're in a den.
[00:43:20] So I remember going and the guy driving was the assistant chief, older guy, ton of time
[00:43:28] on the guy riding the seat was the chief of the department.
[00:43:32] And then the guy in the back with me, and I've never been, I've never been in a fire
[00:43:36] my entire life.
[00:43:37] Never.
[00:43:37] This is the first one.
[00:43:39] That guy, I think it was a safety officer.
[00:43:43] So collectively they had more time on than I've been alive by a lot by, I think the joke
[00:43:48] was by like twice my lifespan.
[00:43:51] I was 16 about like, you know, you're looking at well, you know, well over 40 years of experience
[00:43:57] and I'm this 16 year old snot nose kid.
[00:44:01] And, you know, one of the other chiefs I think got there first and like, you know, Hey,
[00:44:06] fire showing from the lower level on the front, you know, side one back then we didn't call
[00:44:10] it side outside one fire showing very vague.
[00:44:14] So we get there, pull line.
[00:44:16] And I was like, I don't know what to do.
[00:44:17] Like, what the fuck do I do now?
[00:44:18] Like, you know what I mean?
[00:44:19] The officer's like, uh, open the line to that window and then we'll go get it.
[00:44:23] All right.
[00:44:24] And it was like a hundred degrees outside.
[00:44:26] It was hot as shit.
[00:44:27] And I opened the line.
[00:44:28] I'm just kind of flowing water and all right, let's go get it.
[00:44:31] Well, another engine showed up and went through the rear and then it just, it wasn't, I don't
[00:44:38] know.
[00:44:39] It was, it was chaos.
[00:44:40] I don't even remember.
[00:44:41] A little bit of crossing streams?
[00:44:43] Not really.
[00:44:43] No, it just wasn't.
[00:44:45] Um, I don't think it was as great as I wanted it to be.
[00:44:49] Um, but you know, it was, I mean, I knew right then, like, this is it for me.
[00:44:55] Like, this is awesome.
[00:44:56] You know?
[00:44:56] And the, the interesting thing about it was, you know, Hey, knock, we can't get through
[00:45:01] the front door of fires blowing out of this.
[00:45:03] Like it doesn't work.
[00:45:04] And back then people weren't under the mindset of the lowest level.
[00:45:07] Everything was front door, front door, front door, make the steps, hold the steps.
[00:45:11] Like that was the mantra 23 years ago.
[00:45:14] You know what I mean?
[00:45:16] And so we have to fight into the front door.
[00:45:18] We can't get to the front door with all this fire hitting the bottom of the bump out of
[00:45:22] the house, rolling in front of the front door.
[00:45:24] You have to knock this down.
[00:45:25] Looking back on it 23 years later, I mean, I would have gone to the rear, like blow out
[00:45:31] a slider and you can see the fire.
[00:45:33] Like, I don't know why we didn't do, we didn't, they didn't even do 360s back then.
[00:45:35] You know what I mean?
[00:45:36] So they missed it.
[00:45:37] It's just the second new engine went to the rear.
[00:45:39] That's just the way it was.
[00:45:41] So, I mean, I don't know.
[00:45:42] It's just kind of how it was and how it shook out.
[00:45:45] It was still cool.
[00:45:47] I mean, you know, I mean, I didn't know any better.
[00:45:48] Like, whatever.
[00:45:49] Tell me what to do.
[00:45:50] I don't care.
[00:45:50] I'll do whatever it is you tell me to do.
[00:45:52] It was great.
[00:45:54] So that was the very first one, like, that I went on.
[00:45:58] But, yeah.
[00:46:01] The transition from where you were volunteering to where you are now, what was like that?
[00:46:06] What was that from your first fire ever to your first fire at work?
[00:46:13] How about the difference there?
[00:46:14] Huge.
[00:46:15] Huge.
[00:46:16] The speed and the intensity of where I work, I think, is second to none in the world.
[00:46:23] The area that I work in, the Washington, D.C. metropolitan area, it's collectively, for most of it, inside the Beltway, is some of the most aggressive firefighters I think, I honestly think of the nation.
[00:46:38] And I never fully appreciated what the speed was like.
[00:46:43] Like, you know, the first fire ever went on is a career firefighter.
[00:46:47] Right out of the firehouse, go down to the end of the street, it's going to a dead end, make a left, make your first right.
[00:46:52] I think it was four or five streets up on the left.
[00:46:54] The house was on the right-hand side.
[00:46:56] And by the time we're there, we're turning the block, second dude's pulling up.
[00:47:00] And this was back when things were much different.
[00:47:03] And you better get in there.
[00:47:05] You're going to lose your fire.
[00:47:07] They're going to take it.
[00:47:08] God help you if you don't, don't be that guy.
[00:47:12] And, you know, throughout my time in my rookie year, I won some and I lost some.
[00:47:18] And I'm going to leave it at that.
[00:47:20] You know, today's champ could always be tomorrow's chump was what I was always told.
[00:47:25] You know, if you do great, great.
[00:47:26] But don't be arrogant.
[00:47:28] Don't be an asshole.
[00:47:29] Because you, you know.
[00:47:32] It'll come back.
[00:47:32] Catch you slipping.
[00:47:33] They're going to burn you.
[00:47:35] Yeah.
[00:47:35] So that was one of my biggest things.
[00:47:36] I think from my first one as a volunteer to my first one as a career guy was I never fully appreciated the speed.
[00:47:45] And the manner in which the manner of aggression from these guys wanting to go in and put the fire out.
[00:47:51] I mean, the aggressiveness is just off the charts in a good way.
[00:47:56] Has that culture of speed and aggressiveness remained the same throughout your career?
[00:48:02] Or has it gotten, has it changed at all?
[00:48:05] Relative.
[00:48:06] I have relatively stayed in the same area for the most part for a large majority of my career.
[00:48:11] And different places have different levels.
[00:48:15] Some places are compact.
[00:48:17] Some places are not.
[00:48:18] When places, when you, where I'm at now, like I said, you could turn the corner being the first arriving engine.
[00:48:25] And you're going head to head with the first arriving truck.
[00:48:28] You look behind you.
[00:48:29] There's a second new engine.
[00:48:30] And as you're pulling up, giving your, like for me, walking around, giving the 360.
[00:48:35] Third dude's laying out and they're coming through the backyard of another house with their line.
[00:48:38] And this is, you know, everybody's all there.
[00:48:41] And then you go north side or south side, you got a 10 or 15 minute response for some places.
[00:48:46] But what doesn't change for the most part is once they get there, the aggressiveness, the professionalism, the desire to fight fires is there.
[00:49:01] That's there.
[00:49:03] They just might be a little bit further away.
[00:49:05] Their drive time just might be a little bit further.
[00:49:07] And I think the aggressiveness has changed.
[00:49:10] I'm not going to get too much into it.
[00:49:12] I think policy and other things dictate how fire grounds are ran.
[00:49:19] But the good people find ways to still fight fires aggressively and professionally and still work within what we're mandated to do, if that makes sense.
[00:49:35] So I think the aggression's there.
[00:49:37] I think the aggression just evolves into expectations.
[00:49:42] And, you know, where I think you see that the most is inside the firehouse where the policies may change at times, but the people don't.
[00:49:50] The love for the job, the love for being aggressive, wanting to do everything the right way the first time without being prompted, wanting to be aggressively, intelligently aggressive, not aggressively being aggressive and being stupid.
[00:50:04] I think you have guys that, you know, know their AO, their area of operation.
[00:50:11] They understand how to work within those limits.
[00:50:13] And I think they find ways to, I don't want to say compromise, but find ways to keep their work level the same.
[00:50:25] But again, like I said, you know, find that medium between policy.
[00:50:31] Yeah.
[00:50:32] Yeah.
[00:50:32] And the good guys always find a way.
[00:50:34] Yeah.
[00:50:34] Because a guy I know says it the best.
[00:50:37] I'm a professional firefighter.
[00:50:38] I'll make it work.
[00:50:39] Nothing can stop me.
[00:50:40] I'm going to make it work and I'll adapt.
[00:50:42] But you're not going to keep me from being good at my job and being a professional.
[00:50:45] Nice.
[00:50:46] Yeah.
[00:50:47] I would say your department is incredible.
[00:50:49] I had a chance to buff there one time and I was astounded.
[00:50:55] I buffed in College Park.
[00:50:57] A guy from my hometown actually went to College Park and he was one of the chief officers there.
[00:51:03] And he's like, yeah, come on down.
[00:51:08] I'll tell you after who it was.
[00:51:09] Okay.
[00:51:10] I'm pretty sure.
[00:51:10] I'll tell you after who it was.
[00:51:11] In a good way.
[00:51:12] In a good way.
[00:51:13] But yeah, go ahead.
[00:51:13] Sorry.
[00:51:14] But coming from a small town in Jersey and I got like always looked up to him because he was down there.
[00:51:19] I don't know.
[00:51:20] It's PG.
[00:51:21] Right.
[00:51:21] And then we went down there or I went down there one day and there was an alarm at like four o'clock in the morning.
[00:51:26] And there's four engines, two trucks and a rescue on scene like that.
[00:51:31] I was like, this is incredible.
[00:51:34] Incredible.
[00:51:34] For when the chief's getting there and it sticks already up to like whatever floor on this high rise.
[00:51:40] I'm like, this would never happen in my county ever.
[00:51:44] You couldn't get this many rigs here in five minutes in your life if you tried.
[00:51:49] You know, so that's one of the, so that's college parks in the fourth battalion.
[00:51:53] So that's one of those areas that I was telling you about where everybody's super compact and super tight where you're going to make a turn and you're looking at other units immediately.
[00:52:01] So like if you were to run into Branchville's area, you swing that turn from college park, you run Spring Hill Lake and you turn into that neighborhood.
[00:52:09] You're looking at other units the second you pop that hill.
[00:52:12] Like you're right there.
[00:52:13] You know, if you go, God, what would that be?
[00:52:16] South into Riverdale.
[00:52:18] I mean, everybody is clumped together.
[00:52:21] It's the same thing.
[00:52:22] I mean, that's case in point of what I was talking about.
[00:52:26] But it's funny that people say that all the time.
[00:52:29] Well, PG County's this.
[00:52:30] PG County.
[00:52:31] It's just, it's so interesting hearing people from, and I hear this in my podcast a lot of, you know, everybody knows who we are.
[00:52:39] They know how aggressive our area is.
[00:52:42] And I mean, consistently they go to fires for the most, for as a whole, you know, I think everyone goes to fires some places more than others.
[00:52:51] But as a county as a whole, I think we do well.
[00:52:55] Yeah.
[00:52:57] I think you guys are a, go ahead.
[00:53:00] No, that was good.
[00:53:00] No, go ahead.
[00:53:01] Go ahead.
[00:53:01] I think you guys are a case study for a combination department being the largest combination department and having fires to have proof of concept.
[00:53:11] Yeah.
[00:53:12] And I, we used to be the largest combination or the largest and busiest combination department in the country.
[00:53:19] I'm not sure if that's still true.
[00:53:20] I'm pretty sure it is.
[00:53:21] But without having the facts in front of me, I don't want to miss, I don't want to misstate it, but pretty sure we're the busiest and the largest combination system in the country.
[00:53:32] And you're catching work.
[00:53:34] Good work.
[00:53:36] Consistently.
[00:53:37] I think they're, they're consistent.
[00:53:39] I think the county as a whole, yeah.
[00:53:41] Come to work or, you know, whatever.
[00:53:43] Come to work and it's a matter of when, not a matter of if.
[00:53:47] It's inevitable.
[00:53:47] It's going to happen.
[00:53:48] Whether you, I mean, and that again, you know, kind of tie into, you know, the leadership and stuff.
[00:53:55] Operational discipline, right?
[00:53:57] If you're third due, you stay third due.
[00:53:58] If you're first due, you are first due.
[00:54:00] I mean, there's some gray areas in that which policy dictates and follow the policy, do the right thing.
[00:54:07] And you're going to show up when you're supposed to be there.
[00:54:09] If you do that enough, you're going to go to, you're going to catch a lot more work than you realize.
[00:54:15] I think that was one of my biggest lessons.
[00:54:17] Kind of touch on what we talked about earlier.
[00:54:19] When I was going from being a firefighter to an officer, I always wanted to jump due.
[00:54:23] I wanted to jump the run card all the time.
[00:54:25] And I never appreciated why that was such a big deal.
[00:54:28] Why that was such a problem.
[00:54:30] Later on in my career, operational discipline has led me to some of the best fires I've ever been on.
[00:54:36] Some of the most unpredictable situations with the opportunity to step up, be where you're supposed to be, when you're supposed to be there.
[00:54:44] And you get all the fire.
[00:54:45] You get the credit as far as being a solid company.
[00:54:49] So collectively, everybody.
[00:54:52] And, you know, you get a few of those under your belt.
[00:54:54] It builds your confidence.
[00:54:55] It creates camaraderie with you and your guys because you all are, you know, doing the deed.
[00:55:00] And it's what everybody wants to be there for.
[00:55:02] And, you know, it comes in time, especially in our county.
[00:55:06] And I'm sure it's like that nationwide.
[00:55:09] But, I mean, from my experience, I think that was one of my bigger lessons.
[00:55:15] Becoming an officer and looking back and just maturing, I think.
[00:55:19] You know what I mean?
[00:55:20] Getting more time on, more experiences under my belt of learning that lesson.
[00:55:25] Yeah.
[00:55:26] Yeah, that's awesome.
[00:55:27] So what do you think is the most impactful moment of your career so far for you?
[00:55:32] I had a fire when I was an officer where absolutely everything, I mean, you name it, it went wrong.
[00:55:43] I thoroughly embarrassed myself.
[00:55:45] The fire got put out by another company.
[00:55:48] We were first due on it.
[00:55:50] And this is years and years ago.
[00:55:55] And, you know, it was a kick in the teeth.
[00:55:57] Right when I thought I was, you know, arrogant, I knew what I was doing.
[00:56:02] You know, I felt like a cockiness.
[00:56:06] Like, oh, I'm a lieutenant.
[00:56:07] I'm going to work here.
[00:56:08] I work in this place.
[00:56:10] And I'm cool because of the number on my helmet.
[00:56:12] And I'm an officer.
[00:56:13] Look at me.
[00:56:13] Like all that crap.
[00:56:15] Like just the ego was so huge.
[00:56:18] And then, I mean, you want to talk about a punch square in the teeth.
[00:56:24] I mean, holy shit.
[00:56:26] And it went absolutely terrible.
[00:56:29] Right?
[00:56:30] I'm not going to say the name of the street.
[00:56:32] Anybody that knows me knows exactly what I'm talking about.
[00:56:35] And they're probably laughing.
[00:56:37] And they're going to, you know, I think that created Riff's reputation.
[00:56:42] Maybe like a title on me.
[00:56:46] That, I mean, I was in a big tailspin after that.
[00:56:50] You know, it was like quicksand, man.
[00:56:53] You know, just one thing went wrong after another, after another, and after another.
[00:56:57] Before I realized that I was in over my head.
[00:56:58] And there's nothing you can do.
[00:57:00] Like, if you've seen that movie, The Replacements, they talk about that.
[00:57:02] The quicksand analogy.
[00:57:03] Nothing you can do.
[00:57:04] You're in over your head.
[00:57:05] You can't breathe.
[00:57:06] You can't move.
[00:57:07] You can't talk.
[00:57:08] That's it.
[00:57:09] Lights out.
[00:57:09] You have failed.
[00:57:12] You are irrelevant on this call.
[00:57:14] You might as well pack up and go home.
[00:57:17] I felt about that big.
[00:57:18] And it was to the point where I couldn't even look somebody in their face.
[00:57:21] I was, I have never in my career been so embarrassed.
[00:57:27] And had something and lose sleep over a call so much because of me.
[00:57:34] I know it was me.
[00:57:35] I know I didn't get myself prepared.
[00:57:37] I know I didn't take my job seriously.
[00:57:39] I know I didn't have my crew ready to go.
[00:57:41] I was more worried about getting along and having fun than being the supervisor.
[00:57:49] And, you know, it, total loss of control is what it is, what it ended up being.
[00:57:56] And I don't think I've ever, I don't think I've ever felt like such a failure in my entire career as I did in that moment.
[00:58:01] I've done some dumb things.
[00:58:02] I really have.
[00:58:04] Like, I really have.
[00:58:06] And, you know, it was one of the things that I've regretted the most in my career that I wish I could go back and go back in time and pretend like it never happened.
[00:58:18] And I think the real lesson came in two ways.
[00:58:23] And this is why this is the most impactful fire.
[00:58:26] Same street, maybe, maybe a thousand feet apart.
[00:58:31] Like, this is how close these houses are.
[00:58:33] There's another fire.
[00:58:33] This fire was freaking ripping, people trapped, everything.
[00:58:40] New crew, new point in my career, different time in my actual life.
[00:58:46] This is years past, like, God, five, six years later, maybe, maybe.
[00:58:53] I heard the street.
[00:58:54] I immediately, my entire body, I'm like, oh my God, not this street.
[00:59:00] And the first thing I thought of was just everything, you know?
[00:59:05] So, like, I'm going down the road, like, to the point where I'm, like, my body's shaking.
[00:59:09] I'm so, like, overwhelmed with that first fire.
[00:59:12] Like, you know, I hope this doesn't happen again, blah, blah, blah.
[00:59:14] And I just, I remember taking a second, taking a breath, but being comfortable with what happened because I knew how much I've progressed since then.
[00:59:24] I've had more fires under my belt since that fire, right?
[00:59:26] I mean, there's been quite a few, and, you know, it was almost like the culmination of that change in my career of who I was and who I was as an officer.
[00:59:37] And now it's kind of like, not a Super Bowl, but look, you've been prepping for this for a couple years.
[00:59:44] Here's your time to shine.
[00:59:45] Like, it's a redemption.
[00:59:47] Now go fucking do it.
[00:59:48] Go out there and knock this out of the park.
[00:59:50] And my guys freaking killed it.
[00:59:52] I have never been so proud of a group of dudes just showing up and freaking walking the dog on this very hot, well-advanced fire seamlessly.
[01:00:03] Very little talking.
[01:00:04] Everyone needed to, were, everybody was where they were supposed to be when they were supposed to be there.
[01:00:11] And they did their jobs.
[01:00:12] And it was fucking amazing.
[01:00:15] Very few things were spoken.
[01:00:17] Normal communication.
[01:00:18] Very little guidance.
[01:00:20] Just quick eyeballs, like double-checking.
[01:00:23] All right.
[01:00:24] You know, you got your shit on.
[01:00:25] You're good.
[01:00:26] I didn't say that.
[01:00:27] I'm just saying, like, double-check.
[01:00:28] You got your stuff on.
[01:00:29] Line's charged.
[01:00:30] I can hear the pump of the engine winding up.
[01:00:32] I see the water coming.
[01:00:34] Hey, I got water.
[01:00:35] I hear guys clicking in, taking that first breath of that regulator opening up.
[01:00:38] All right.
[01:00:38] Everybody's on air.
[01:00:39] I'm good.
[01:00:40] I can see my shit.
[01:00:40] I'm great.
[01:00:41] I think the fire's back there.
[01:00:42] Yo, LT, this is where it is.
[01:00:44] Hey, you ready?
[01:00:45] Yeah, I'm good.
[01:00:46] One guy was like, hey, do you want me to do a search?
[01:00:48] And I, right, well, he didn't, he didn't get that out.
[01:00:50] What he said was, hey, I'm gonna.
[01:00:52] And I said, do it.
[01:00:53] And I knew immediately what he was saying because we were jiving.
[01:00:56] Right?
[01:00:56] It's just, we're freaking rocking.
[01:01:00] You know, fire gets put out and, and, you know, it was good.
[01:01:06] And I think why that was transformational was what I think I learned was I don't give
[01:01:11] myself enough credit with things.
[01:01:13] And that no matter how much you fall flat on your face, you can always rebound and how
[01:01:19] important your crew is to you.
[01:01:22] They're going to make or break you, but don't always think everything's always going to be
[01:01:26] negative.
[01:01:28] And, and, and I think that brought me into a new level of confidence because that call,
[01:01:32] that first fire that was terrible crosses my mind every day.
[01:01:37] At some point, somehow, some way I think about it and not even like a PTSD thing, like just in
[01:01:43] general, it crosses my mind.
[01:01:44] You know, I, I still get anxious in a good way on, we get rerun boxes because that call
[01:01:50] is still in the back of my mind, you know, but where the transition came.
[01:01:54] And I guess the point of what I'm saying is I get a little anxious and then I move forward
[01:02:00] like it's nothing because I know I can handle it.
[01:02:02] I've had a couple of fires since then I've had, like I get into this fire, but I had one
[01:02:06] fire.
[01:02:07] There's another interesting moment in my career and people that know me are probably going
[01:02:11] to laugh their ass off where without this first shitty fire, I would have never had
[01:02:15] the confidence to pull the trigger on, on this latest one that I'm not going to talk
[01:02:19] about because I have the confidence in my guys knowing, you know, they would check me
[01:02:25] if I was going to make a terrible decision.
[01:02:27] And I think that was what the most important lesson I learned was, you know, you can do
[01:02:32] absolutely everything and anything you can bounce back from everything and fires are going
[01:02:35] to leave marks on you in your, in your life and in your career.
[01:02:39] But the rebound of how you come out of it is where guys are going to respect you.
[01:02:45] That's when guys are going to want to follow you.
[01:02:49] And I think that's where you're going to make the most progress as a person, as a man,
[01:02:58] because you're owning your mistakes, you're, you're, you're moving forward and you're
[01:03:01] showing you can do it with confidence.
[01:03:04] And, and, and, and, you know, as an officer, um, you know, you can't screw up and you can
[01:03:10] admit it and you can take it on the chin, but in the same token and the ultimate, the
[01:03:15] ultimate thing is regardless of how much is going on, you can execute and be there for
[01:03:21] your guys.
[01:03:24] So that I think was one of my most impactful fires.
[01:03:28] I would agree.
[01:03:29] It sounds like it.
[01:03:30] I think the ownership's huge.
[01:03:31] Yeah.
[01:03:32] I was just going to say that.
[01:03:32] The ownership that's gigantic.
[01:03:35] Well, I think ownership, sincere ownership, genuine ownership, because there's people like,
[01:03:40] oh man, I fucked that up.
[01:03:41] But then they go and fuck it up again.
[01:03:44] They go and screw it up again.
[01:03:45] Like, you know what I mean?
[01:03:48] Like, I'll give you an example.
[01:03:49] I screwed up some areas like, like it was embarrassing how much I screwed up a call one
[01:03:55] time, not knowing, not really being able to read the map.
[01:03:58] And somebody said, you know, Hey, you have a map book and we still fucked this mess.
[01:04:02] This is part of my language.
[01:04:03] You, you have a map book and we screwed this up and it was embarrassing.
[01:04:07] And collectively you have the map book and we need you to fix this because this will not
[01:04:13] happen to us again.
[01:04:15] Yeah.
[01:04:16] I got checked.
[01:04:17] Roger that.
[01:04:18] So I went and I made two, I'm not gonna be able to see it, but three inch binders, like
[01:04:24] gigantic binders of first, our first through fourth alarm areas.
[01:04:29] So our entire first do our second do our third year, everywhere.
[01:04:33] First through fourth do anything beyond that.
[01:04:36] The engine itself has a collection of maps for the exact same areas.
[01:04:39] And then a large area.
[01:04:44] Man, I made my own and I went through every single map page and I wrote, I drew in a little,
[01:04:49] a little five and which way we're coming from on the map.
[01:04:53] And I wrote the running route to get to that map page for four box districts.
[01:05:00] Because I refused to ever allow myself to be in that situation and feel like that again.
[01:05:08] And there's been, I mean, there's been mistakes.
[01:05:09] I mean, I've, I've still screwed a lot of stuff up and I even had that map and I still screw
[01:05:14] things up.
[01:05:14] And I think that's just life.
[01:05:16] I think it's a matter of how you recover from that part.
[01:05:18] But, you know, it was even brought up how funny it is where I go get my stuff together
[01:05:23] in the mornings.
[01:05:24] And then I come back like a little kid with my school books.
[01:05:28] Like I'm not a big guy.
[01:05:29] I'm only five foot six and I've got these two gigantic map books.
[01:05:32] And I'm like, I'm walking like this with two huge binders, you know what I mean?
[01:05:37] And it was comical.
[01:05:38] And the comment came up of, you know, it is something to be said that they can't, you know,
[01:05:43] you had a issue brought to you and you didn't say anything to anyone.
[01:05:47] And on your own, you just randomly showed up with gigantic map books and looked like a
[01:05:52] little kid going to school because you, you have your own map books now to not allow that
[01:05:57] to happen.
[01:05:58] And that came from somebody who is not easy to impress and does not hand out compliments
[01:06:01] ever.
[01:06:04] So, you know, you got to appreciate the lesson, you know?
[01:06:08] Yeah.
[01:06:09] A hundred percent.
[01:06:10] Do you hear, uh, get rich.
[01:06:13] Now you go.
[01:06:14] I was, I was going to ask you, do your computers, uh, have maps in them or you just, uh, solely
[01:06:19] rely on the map books?
[01:06:20] So, I mean, there's an expectation of knowing your area, knowing the area, like, you know,
[01:06:26] the, the, the maps will give you the finite information, like hydrants, um, exactly which
[01:06:33] house, like left side, right side, without like turning the block and being like, oh, it's
[01:06:37] 100, which means that's going to be 102 and, you know, so on and so forth.
[01:06:42] And we, we, where I'm at a majority of the areas of grid system.
[01:06:45] So the numbers get larger away from DC and then smaller towards DC lettered, uh, lettered
[01:06:51] streets are typically in alphabetical order.
[01:06:54] They may not be always A through Z, but you know, if you have a street that starts with
[01:06:59] an A, you're not going to have an F street immediately after you're probably gonna have
[01:07:02] a B street or C street, you know?
[01:07:04] So it'll be, if you had every letter, it'd be ABCD.
[01:07:06] So, you know, whatever street, um, it would be, it'd be that letter.
[01:07:11] But, um, so that they're there for that finite information and, but the expectation of the
[01:07:16] grid system or the expectation in general, as you should know, 90% of your area.
[01:07:20] So the large, large streets, and you'll hear a lot of guys that are, you know, that are
[01:07:24] good.
[01:07:25] They'll say something to the effect of, I just need a hydrant or you're gonna have to guide
[01:07:29] me in after whatever street, like I've got it to Smith street.
[01:07:33] You're gonna have to guide me in and I just need a hydrant.
[01:07:34] You know what I mean?
[01:07:35] And then a lot of drivers that are in smaller areas that have smaller first dues can tell
[01:07:40] you everything and anything.
[01:07:42] And then there's those, those guys, the, um, Renaissance men where they just, they've
[01:07:48] been around and they're just that smart and experienced where they just know everything.
[01:07:53] It feels like, you know, but, um, so nothing's really technically on our MDTs, mobile data
[01:08:00] terminals, I think is what that stand MDT stands for.
[01:08:02] That just gives you CAD information, updated information from call takers.
[01:08:07] It's touch screen.
[01:08:08] So like you can status and route or you can clear a call.
[01:08:11] You can go on scene, like all that, all that stuff.
[01:08:13] And, and, um, we just don't, they have maps in it, like a GIS map, but not anything that
[01:08:19] is efficient or effective for us to use.
[01:08:22] You have to know how to read the map.
[01:08:23] You have to know where you're coming from.
[01:08:24] Um, GPS in our area just isn't great because GPS will take you the quickest way, not the
[01:08:30] right way.
[01:08:30] And not, and it doesn't correspond to knowing where the hydrants are.
[01:08:34] So you could look at a map or you could look, excuse me, you could look at, um, you know,
[01:08:39] Google maps and it'll give you a running route.
[01:08:42] That's super fast.
[01:08:42] You're like, Oh, that's golden.
[01:08:43] But what it doesn't take into account is where second do engine coming from?
[01:08:47] Where's the hydrant?
[01:08:48] What's your priority on this building?
[01:08:50] It may not realize there's a fence there.
[01:08:52] It doesn't see that there's six, um, six speed humps on this street, which if you take
[01:08:56] the next street over, you can rocket, you can go off like a rocket ship.
[01:08:59] You know what I mean?
[01:09:00] Like, so it's not very relevant, um, as far as, uh, the mapping.
[01:09:05] So the guys have map books.
[01:09:07] Some are better than others, but for the most part, people have maps.
[01:09:10] Some places have hand-drawn maps still.
[01:09:14] But yeah, teaches on, I guess.
[01:09:18] Got to appreciate it.
[01:09:19] I love the little mid-Atlantic culture of map books is it's very like profound there
[01:09:26] in my opinion.
[01:09:29] Well, I didn't, I didn't realize how advanced those computers can be.
[01:09:33] Like a buddy of mine works in another department and it all comes to his computer and you just
[01:09:39] tap on it, tells you everything, everywhere to go, the correct fire department way.
[01:09:42] But I know my maps because I have done them with my brain, my hand and that computer can
[01:09:49] break.
[01:09:49] I can lose that map book allegedly or not allegedly possibly, excuse me.
[01:09:56] But between me and the driver, we should be able to get everywhere, anywhere, absolutely
[01:10:00] anything.
[01:10:00] And I was always taught a piece of paper and a pen and a sharp mind is the most effective
[01:10:07] officer when it comes to responding on a call.
[01:10:11] Cause you can write that address down.
[01:10:13] You know what I mean?
[01:10:14] You can write down information, pen and a paper.
[01:10:17] You can rely on yourself and your maps.
[01:10:20] If nothing else, don't rely on that computer.
[01:10:23] Yeah.
[01:10:24] Yeah.
[01:10:24] That's good.
[01:10:25] I mean, it's a little different where Rich and I work.
[01:10:29] The, you were not running, uh, an area as large as, as you would be running.
[01:10:35] Like if you were running into another, um, district's area, um, we're like, I got six
[01:10:43] square miles to, to know Rich has one square mile.
[01:10:48] So, yeah, that's our first two.
[01:10:51] Where's your, where are you, where are you at?
[01:10:53] So I'm in Asbury park and then James is in Long Branch.
[01:10:57] So super small, but it starts to build out from there.
[01:11:01] That's a, the other thing is where we work.
[01:11:04] So we're both in career departments.
[01:11:05] James is in a combination department.
[01:11:07] Mine's strictly career, but the box alarms for the County that we're in, we're running
[01:11:13] wherever we're running, but on a yearly basis.
[01:11:17] It changes because there's, there's incoming chiefs from volunteer departments who make
[01:11:23] their own box alarms or they make their box alarms for the year.
[01:11:26] So like December 31st, I know I'm going to this town, but on January one, maybe I'm
[01:11:33] shuffled somewhere.
[01:11:35] It depends on what piece it is.
[01:11:36] Cause we're running an engine in a truck and we run truck company operations or RIT off
[01:11:42] of our truck.
[01:11:43] So it all depends, falls in line to him too.
[01:11:46] Typically there's four guys in our truck, but if we go to RIT, we're running five guys.
[01:11:49] So we have to steal a guy from somewhere.
[01:11:51] Yeah.
[01:11:52] That's wild.
[01:11:53] It just, it's, it's unique, but then you have four guys in the back of the rig on their
[01:11:59] phones, pulling up addresses and looking for alternative ways in.
[01:12:03] So it's kind of interesting.
[01:12:06] So we, do you guys have active 911?
[01:12:08] We run, what are we running James?
[01:12:11] Chief 360 now.
[01:12:12] Chief 360.
[01:12:13] This is what we're running.
[01:12:14] We have active 911 and it's, it's actually really good.
[01:12:17] But again, you know, it's a tool.
[01:12:21] Yeah.
[01:12:22] And I think if you become dependent on it, it'll probably work.
[01:12:25] But what I've learned, you got to be prepared to have another option.
[01:12:31] Don't rely on that cell phone.
[01:12:32] Don't rely on that computer.
[01:12:34] At some point, something's going to happen.
[01:12:37] And then that'll be the day that you have something like you have something big going
[01:12:41] on or you have a ripper.
[01:12:42] Nice, nice job.
[01:12:44] Nice fire.
[01:12:45] But you'll get, you'll get that call and, and, you know, you need to be able to step
[01:12:49] up and still perform, even though you don't have your primary thing.
[01:12:54] Um, I think that make it work, right?
[01:12:57] Yeah.
[01:12:58] I think people become dependent on their phone for maps and you can tell, like you can see
[01:13:04] some of the way people run on calls and, or you can see fires of how they came in, where
[01:13:07] they laid out, what hydrant they took, where you're just kind of like, why'd you do that?
[01:13:11] Like you can tell they, they use GPS and I'm guilty of, I mean, there's been a couple
[01:13:15] of calls recently, actually, where we don't have maps for that area.
[01:13:19] I don't know where we're going.
[01:13:20] I have to use GPS.
[01:13:21] And then I just zoom into the map and try to use it.
[01:13:25] Like, all right, well, GPS is this, but that doesn't, we can go the other way because of,
[01:13:29] you know, whatever, you know what I mean?
[01:13:32] So I, and it doesn't give you the fire department thought process where you can add that link
[01:13:37] and use your phone, use your map, your phone map or your app or whatever as a tool, but
[01:13:44] you still have to make your, you have to make your decision as the, as the officer, the firefighter.
[01:13:51] Gotcha.
[01:13:52] Yeah.
[01:13:53] So running your own podcast, you obviously have a, a view and a, a portal to the outside
[01:13:59] world that start after you started the podcast or did that start before you started the podcast?
[01:14:04] Say it.
[01:14:06] So like in the fire service perspective, like you work from a pretty big department and that's
[01:14:11] somewhat uncommon for guys in bigger departments to get outside of their department and doing
[01:14:17] the podcast.
[01:14:18] Did you start getting outside of your department when you started the podcast or was that before?
[01:14:24] My reach for my reach, I think really started with the podcast.
[01:14:26] So I don't interview anyone that currently works in my department.
[01:14:31] I will not interview someone that's on the job.
[01:14:34] I don't, and that's not a personal thing.
[01:14:36] I think to me, it just keeps a lot of issues from happening because it just, you know, if
[01:14:44] you're retired, you can say whatever you want, or if you don't work with my department, you
[01:14:48] can say whatever you want and then free speech, you know, as long as I don't trash my department
[01:14:51] or, you know, say something specific that could, you know, erode trust or in the public
[01:14:57] or whatever, then I have my constitutional rights to say and do what I want, you know?
[01:15:03] So, you know, I reached out to a lot of guys that are not in my department and it puts me
[01:15:07] outside of my comfort zone of, you know, I talked to guys from New Jersey.
[01:15:11] I don't know much about New Jersey fire departments.
[01:15:12] I know a few things.
[01:15:13] I know a lot of guys from Jersey, you know, I got two guys on my shift from New Jersey
[01:15:18] and I hear a lot of stuff about it and I hear about it, but I don't, I personally
[01:15:22] don't know it.
[01:15:22] And the nicest part about it is, and I'm glad this worked out this way and, you know, hopefully
[01:15:27] this answers your question a little bit better, but being able to have that outside of the
[01:15:32] DMV perspective and grasp from guys that I'm not going to say no name guys, but guys that
[01:15:38] are not like on the national level, the national speaking level or the national podcast level,
[01:15:43] learning all these very finite things from guys that are just off the charts, intelligent
[01:15:48] and you'd never know it unless you reached out and tried to find it outside of your
[01:15:52] area or outside of your, your comfort zone, I guess you will, or your bubble, like outside of the
[01:15:57] Capitol Beltway for me.
[01:15:59] There's so many things that I've learned that I would have never, never known about people I've
[01:16:03] met and talked to that I would never, we never crossed paths with them.
[01:16:07] And then what does that bring in other things in the fire service and other lessons and,
[01:16:11] and, you know, a lot of leadership stuff and experiences and stuff.
[01:16:15] I would have never, I would have never learned interviewing guys on my job or sticking with
[01:16:20] just doing my job by myself or learning within my department.
[01:16:25] And there's nothing wrong with staying within your department and learning from just your
[01:16:27] guys.
[01:16:27] There's nothing wrong with that at all.
[01:16:29] But I do think being able to expand and reach out in these other areas throughout the,
[01:16:33] you know, throughout the country and different departments, different cultures.
[01:16:39] Um, you know, I liked it and I got the most out of it from reaching outside of my, out of
[01:16:44] my area and, and, um, with the podcast before the podcast, it was very minimal, very minimal.
[01:16:49] So.
[01:16:49] Yeah.
[01:16:50] So it's kind of like a force multiplier for personal development.
[01:16:55] Well, yeah.
[01:16:55] And you know, it's funny how you say that.
[01:16:58] So I get to talk to some really, really sharp people.
[01:17:00] I've talked to a lot of really sharp people.
[01:17:02] You know, I, I get invited on a lot of these or not a lot of these, but I get invited
[01:17:07] to these, um, opportunities, you know, and I talk to guys and I try to surround myself
[01:17:12] and accept podcasts or accept situate opportunities for people that I feel are way ahead of me.
[01:17:19] Like even, even on my job, guys that are light years beyond my intelligence, light years
[01:17:24] beyond my ability, light years down the road of who I want to be, where I want to be in
[01:17:28] my career.
[01:17:29] Like I find those people and I try to soak it all up.
[01:17:32] So when I do the podcast, I get to talk to all these people.
[01:17:35] I don't talk about my problems at work, but if I find something that I'm like trying to
[01:17:41] work through and think through, I'll somehow try and bring it up on the podcast and get
[01:17:45] their perspective.
[01:17:47] So I have, you know, as an officer, you have, um, you know, you have situations in your
[01:17:56] career where you, you, you have to work through.
[01:17:59] It's just, you know, as you develop your problems developed and your situations come up.
[01:18:03] Well, I get to talk to some of the smartest people in the industry, pick their brains,
[01:18:09] listen to some of their lessons.
[01:18:10] And it's just like that old adage.
[01:18:12] Like, I forget what magazine it was.
[01:18:13] And I really wish I could remember it where it says what you read today could save your
[01:18:16] life tomorrow.
[01:18:18] Kind of the same thing.
[01:18:19] I'm learning from all these guys.
[01:18:20] Now I get to go back and take all these lessons and things that I've heard and all
[01:18:23] that.
[01:18:24] And if I start seeing it at work, not with my guys in particular, I'm just saying in general,
[01:18:28] and I'm not saying anything about them, but you know, like, let's say there's a scenario
[01:18:32] with a person and I'm like, in my mind, it immediately triggers a conversation I had.
[01:18:35] And I remember the guy tried X, Y, and Z and I try it.
[01:18:37] So I get to learn all these things.
[01:18:39] I get to get my thoughts out and I get to, you know, uh, run my, run, run my thought
[01:18:44] process through conversations with people.
[01:18:47] And then I get to go back and apply everything that I'm learning and stuff that I'm talking
[01:18:50] about and things that I'm reading.
[01:18:52] I get to go apply it at work trial and error, but it's almost like a, a, a infinite file
[01:18:58] of experience to just tap into.
[01:19:00] It's like the ultimate, the ultimate guide of experience and mentorship that I can tap
[01:19:08] into at any time and, and, and, and try and use it.
[01:19:11] So I get to learn things, learn lessons, hear lessons, hear experiences, and I get to go
[01:19:15] apply it at work, you know, actual real world application.
[01:19:19] Sometimes it works.
[01:19:20] Sometimes it doesn't.
[01:19:21] And some things just don't, don't, don't, um, uh, don't apply, you know, and this isn't
[01:19:27] towards you guys, but like stuff that works in Asbury park, I know it's not going to work
[01:19:32] for me.
[01:19:32] So I may not try that, you know, or you told me about something happened at work and I
[01:19:38] go try it and it works amazing, even though we're in two completely different states, hundreds
[01:19:42] of miles apart.
[01:19:44] But the, the, the ideology, the culture is all there.
[01:19:48] So it, and it's all about interpersonal interaction and then ultimately love for the job and, and,
[01:19:57] and putting out fires and getting along with people and, and, and being part of that culture
[01:20:02] and that brotherhood we talked about.
[01:20:03] That's what it's all about, you know?
[01:20:06] So that's why I, yeah, I really like being able to reach out beyond my normal circle.
[01:20:11] I don't, I think the development and where I'm at confidence wise from learning what,
[01:20:15] like having the tools in my toolbox, I would have never had that if I just stuck with my
[01:20:20] inner circle or not inner circle, but within my bubble, I think is the right way to say
[01:20:25] that.
[01:20:26] Yeah.
[01:20:27] Yeah.
[01:20:27] I think the, there's a lot of personal growth that comes out of that.
[01:20:30] Staying in your bubble is good, but it's comfortable and being comfortable is never
[01:20:34] good for growing.
[01:20:36] Yeah.
[01:20:37] Comfort's the enemy of growth.
[01:20:38] Whether you, whether you see it in the moment or not, it's the, it's the enemy of growth
[01:20:41] and it always will be.
[01:20:42] Perfect example of this podcast.
[01:20:50] It's something I never would have ever, ever thought about doing.
[01:20:54] And then I got to make yourself uncomfortable to, to get better.
[01:21:00] You know, I couldn't have said it any better.
[01:21:02] And one thing that I learned, and I'm sure you're probably the same way.
[01:21:06] I was so anxious with a lot of stuff and now it's two years later and I haven't even looked
[01:21:10] back, you know, like people say stuff and it's just like, what the hell do you know?
[01:21:15] Like, what the hell do those guys know?
[01:21:18] You know, people are going to say stuff.
[01:21:19] And I think it also, it also created the opportunity to be confident.
[01:21:24] You know what I mean?
[01:21:25] You're not going to get people to give you compliments, but you know, if you want to
[01:21:30] go to a new level of personal growth and a new level of being confident in your job
[01:21:33] and a new level of just having that command presence, I think, because it all ties in,
[01:21:39] go outside of your comfort zone and thrive and see how it makes you feel.
[01:21:43] Right.
[01:21:43] Right.
[01:21:44] The, the ability to ultimately control your mind, like really control your thoughts opens
[01:21:50] up clarity beyond anything you could probably recognize without having that moment.
[01:21:56] And where does that happen?
[01:21:57] Out of your comfort zone.
[01:21:59] Like, well, I don't feel comfortable doing an Instagram page.
[01:22:02] Well, they just found out who I was.
[01:22:04] Now I'm getting made fun of, but there's a 30,000 people that love it.
[01:22:10] And my inbox is full daily.
[01:22:14] I get invites for all kinds of shit.
[01:22:17] All these people seem to, um, not connect.
[01:22:21] What is that?
[01:22:22] Um, relate to what I'm talking about.
[01:22:26] Why am I going to allow a few people to give me a bunch of crap that, and they're, they're
[01:22:29] not doing anything with themselves.
[01:22:31] You know, there's a difference between ball breaking and talking shit.
[01:22:34] Like there's, there's a complete difference.
[01:22:36] And I actually talked about this the other day.
[01:22:38] You know, it's always kind of funny when people have the most to say and all the criticism,
[01:22:41] but not, but yet they never have anything to say to your face.
[01:22:45] You know what I mean?
[01:22:46] There's a stark difference.
[01:22:47] Guys that are giving you a hard time and messing with you.
[01:22:49] Mm-hmm.
[01:22:50] And then guys that there's a, it's easy to distinguish between ball busting and like
[01:22:58] something that's where they actually mean it.
[01:23:02] And you can, you can detect it pretty easily.
[01:23:05] Yeah.
[01:23:06] Yeah.
[01:23:06] Oh, I'm just messing with you.
[01:23:07] No, no.
[01:23:08] See, no, you're not.
[01:23:09] Yeah.
[01:23:09] And look, I got it.
[01:23:11] Yeah.
[01:23:12] You know, I actually had an interaction like that where somebody did that and I, they're
[01:23:15] like, I'm just kidding.
[01:23:16] I'm just kidding.
[01:23:16] I'm like, no, no, you're not.
[01:23:18] I'd actually rather you just be straightforward with me than lie to my face.
[01:23:21] Cause you want to give me a hard time.
[01:23:23] I can get over that if you don't, if you don't respect me, but if you're going to be a coward
[01:23:26] and try to be my friend, we, I have a huge problem with you and I don't think that guy
[01:23:32] liked you very much.
[01:23:33] And I, you know, quite frankly, I just don't care anymore.
[01:23:36] And the right people will come to you.
[01:23:39] The right people will, I don't know how to explain this.
[01:23:43] You'll know who the right people are.
[01:23:44] You really will.
[01:23:45] And, and, and at, you know, at the end of the day, none of it matters.
[01:23:48] It doesn't, you know, this is a job and I hate saying it like this.
[01:23:53] You could retire tomorrow.
[01:23:54] And if you get six days out of people remembering or six months out of people remembering who
[01:23:58] you are, you're lucky.
[01:24:00] It's a job that God forbid you drop dead tonight.
[01:24:05] Somebody's filling your spot tomorrow.
[01:24:06] They're going to fill it with a transfer and you're just going to fall off the face of the
[01:24:09] earth to them.
[01:24:09] And so why allow a job or something like that to dictate anything you do in your life that
[01:24:15] makes you happy or gives you fulfillment?
[01:24:19] And it took me 39 years to fully really grasp that.
[01:24:22] And I still have times where I have to remind myself of that.
[01:24:27] That's my thought process I want to do, not to get too deep on it.
[01:24:30] I've learned over the last couple of years, like I don't let any, any of the haters take
[01:24:35] up any space in my brain.
[01:24:37] Yeah.
[01:24:38] So.
[01:24:38] And you know, I think it's, it's human nature to resonate a little bit.
[01:24:42] You know, I mean, there's still, there's still times where I've, I've heard things, you know,
[01:24:45] people have said things where I'm kind of like, I wouldn't say beat myself up over it,
[01:24:49] but it's, it's weighs on my mind a little bit.
[01:24:51] And, you know, I always take a little bit to kind of work through it and then just move
[01:24:55] on and drop it.
[01:24:56] I think it's human nature.
[01:24:58] You know what I mean?
[01:24:59] You don't want people to hate you.
[01:25:00] You don't want somebody to disrespect you, but I mean, I can't control them, but I can
[01:25:03] control how I react.
[01:25:05] I can control how it affects me because if, you know, I'm with my crew and you talk shit
[01:25:08] to me and you, you know, own me in front of my shift and I kind of walk away like a little
[01:25:13] bitch about it.
[01:25:14] I mean, that's a problem because you just, you're a coward.
[01:25:18] You just allowed that guy to walk all over.
[01:25:20] You didn't even stand up for yourself.
[01:25:22] Are you going to be able to stand up for them?
[01:25:25] You allowed that guy to treat you that way.
[01:25:26] It's not what you say, it's what you tolerate.
[01:25:28] And I've been guilty of that in my past, unfortunately, as much as I don't want to admit
[01:25:31] that, but, you know, being able to really grab that and honestly tell yourself you have control
[01:25:38] of your thoughts is a very, very clarifying moment.
[01:25:43] Yeah.
[01:25:43] Yeah.
[01:25:44] 100%.
[01:25:45] Can't argue with that.
[01:25:46] No.
[01:25:50] So I know we're, we're coming up on an hour and a half now.
[01:25:55] Definitely.
[01:25:57] We can go on for a few more hours if we could.
[01:25:59] Imagine sometime.
[01:26:00] But yeah, we'll have to do a couple more episodes.
[01:26:04] I just want to ask one more question before we wrap up.
[01:26:08] Sure.
[01:26:10] So actually, Rich, Rich will have one more question that's not on the list that he likes
[01:26:14] to ask, but what, what would you like to tell a new guy on their first day?
[01:26:21] Be yourself.
[01:26:23] Be yourself.
[01:26:24] I think, I think I've, I know, I, I know I was guilty of it and, and I know I see it
[01:26:33] where guys are trying to conform.
[01:26:35] They're not trying to go along to get along, but over time you can watch a new guy start
[01:26:41] taking on the opinions, making the same comments, even like maybe the way they physically talk,
[01:26:48] the way they carry themselves, the way they wear their uniforms is following someone else.
[01:26:54] For good or for worse.
[01:26:56] I've seen guys that are fucking freaking rock solid, razor sharp, because they're following
[01:27:02] the right guy.
[01:27:03] And I've seen guys that follow the negative guy, the guy that has all the answers and
[01:27:07] doesn't fix anything, can't go anywhere in their career and, and always has something
[01:27:11] to say and is always negative and hates his life, hates his, you know, everything.
[01:27:16] And there's rookies that follow that.
[01:27:17] And they kind of go down the negative Nancy's, you know, negative Nancy spiral.
[01:27:22] I think what I would tell any rookie is, you know, be yourself, be honest about your mistakes
[01:27:32] and don't be too hard on yourself.
[01:27:34] You're going to screw up.
[01:27:35] You're going to screw up absolutely everything and anything you could think of.
[01:27:38] And you can be, I think the fire department's like golf.
[01:27:41] I really do.
[01:27:42] You could feel great for the longest time.
[01:27:43] Then you could absolutely have an absolute garbage game.
[01:27:45] And then you kind of sit in the garbage world by just kind of screwing up a few things, but
[01:27:51] you're going to come out of it.
[01:27:52] So I think that's what I would tell any rookies, just be yourself and have fun, man.
[01:27:57] This is the best job in the world for a reason.
[01:27:59] The brotherhood's not dead.
[01:28:01] Mental health doesn't ruin the fire department.
[01:28:03] You know, all these negative things out there that, that people talk about, you know, abolish
[01:28:09] the NFPA, all this just negative crap, there's so much chatter and noise, just ignore all of it.
[01:28:18] People that want to, you know, the whole, the abolish the NFPA thing, people that, you know,
[01:28:21] the mental health thing, whatever, that's their niche.
[01:28:23] Then let, let it be theirs is what I'm getting at.
[01:28:26] Find your own.
[01:28:28] Be you, right?
[01:28:30] Be an individual in a, in a world of copycats is what I'm saying.
[01:28:34] And there's nothing wrong with those other guys in the mental health.
[01:28:35] I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that at all.
[01:28:36] But what I'm saying is don't follow things just because of the culture or the, especially
[01:28:43] the internet.
[01:28:43] Like the internet is so full of people talking about things that you can say and create whatever
[01:28:48] you want.
[01:28:49] There's no validation for it at all.
[01:28:51] Like, what the hell do you know?
[01:28:52] You know, not you, but you know what the hell you're going to go ahead and start your own
[01:28:56] training company.
[01:28:57] And you, I watch, you know, I watch people do stuff and I'm like, well, you're not doing
[01:29:01] anything different than that guy's doing, but you changed the letter.
[01:29:04] Now it's revolutionary.
[01:29:06] And there's literally nothing wrong with conventional forcible entry.
[01:29:09] Nothing.
[01:29:10] It's conventional for a reason.
[01:29:13] It's even in the title, conventional, right?
[01:29:17] Don't follow the culture, create your own path and, and, and be able to filter the BS and
[01:29:23] just be yourself, man.
[01:29:24] That's, that's it.
[01:29:25] I know that's a few things to tell a rookie, but I really wish I could go back in time and
[01:29:30] tell myself that I really do.
[01:29:31] And I think I created a lot of problems for myself because I was so worried about being
[01:29:36] what I thought a rookie should be and what others wanted a rookie to be and what others
[01:29:41] wanted me to be.
[01:29:42] And throughout my life and my career, I spent so much time worrying about that than just
[01:29:47] being myself.
[01:29:47] And I think I created a substantial amount of problems because of that.
[01:29:55] And if I was myself, just genuinely just being me and just doing things how I do them, I
[01:30:01] would have been fine.
[01:30:01] So like, I was so worried about what you two would think of how I started this.
[01:30:04] So I try to do it how I thought you wanted me to start it.
[01:30:06] And I screwed it up.
[01:30:08] And then you're like, Hey Mike, why'd you do that?
[01:30:10] Why don't you do this?
[01:30:11] And the example you gave me was in my mind, what I knew I should have done, but I was too
[01:30:15] worried about trying to impress you.
[01:30:17] I was too worried about doing it the way I thought would be the cool way to, or the right
[01:30:19] way to do it rather than the way I knew to do it.
[01:30:22] Does that make sense?
[01:30:23] Yeah.
[01:30:24] Absolutely.
[01:30:25] So that, that would be, that would be my biggest thing.
[01:30:27] And I'd probably throw that in for new officers too.
[01:30:30] I really would.
[01:30:32] Yeah.
[01:30:33] I like that answer.
[01:30:36] Yeah.
[01:30:37] Very easy to, to become a product of your environment.
[01:30:42] And you kind of want to belong.
[01:30:44] Yeah.
[01:30:44] You always have that innate feeling where you want to belong.
[01:30:46] You want to belong, but I.
[01:30:50] The cost is high.
[01:30:51] It is.
[01:30:52] And one thing that I've learned is the job and the guys mature just as you do.
[01:30:59] So you can never fake who you are.
[01:31:02] Like if you're genuinely always yourself, that's going to bring consistency and dependability.
[01:31:07] But if you're continuously wanting to be liked, you're wanting to fit in and all that,
[01:31:13] those, I guess, examples are what people think are the end thing for that moment.
[01:31:17] Those are going to, you know, they're going to change as time goes on.
[01:31:20] Look, vent enter search, right?
[01:31:23] Vent enter search.
[01:31:25] How many times has that changed?
[01:31:26] For no reason.
[01:31:28] Vent enter isolate search.
[01:31:29] Well, isolate should probably be a given because if you don't shut the door, you're going to figure it out real fast.
[01:31:36] Right?
[01:31:37] Now there's another letter for vent enter.
[01:31:39] I mean, I don't even know.
[01:31:40] But the whole point is.
[01:31:41] It's crazy.
[01:31:42] All those things are going to ebb and flow.
[01:31:45] But if Rich, James, and Mike are the consistent dude that comes to work, always tries to do the right thing.
[01:31:52] They have a great attitude.
[01:31:53] They're sharp in presentation, sharp in person, sharp in attitude.
[01:31:57] And 100% when they're at work, they're 100% in, ready to go, want to learn, do the right thing, and be a good person.
[01:32:07] No matter where all that guides you throughout those years of what's popular, what's not, what's in, what's not,
[01:32:12] you're still going to be the same person doing the right thing every time.
[01:32:15] And whatever that in thing is, whatever that, you know, I don't say buzzword, but whatever that culture shift is,
[01:32:24] you're still going to be the same guy doing the right thing.
[01:32:26] You're going to still be the same guy huffing down a hallway.
[01:32:31] You're going to still be the same guy standing on a landing while the other dude's walking the dog,
[01:32:34] and you're just sitting there shuffling the hose.
[01:32:38] Like, you know what I mean?
[01:32:38] You're still there no matter what, just as an officer.
[01:32:41] You're still doing your 360.
[01:32:43] You're giving your basement reports.
[01:32:44] You're leading.
[01:32:45] You're making decisions on the fly.
[01:32:47] You're able to consistently deliver.
[01:32:52] Yeah.
[01:32:53] I think I'm out of brainpower on that one.
[01:32:55] But, I mean, you understand.
[01:32:58] Yeah.
[01:32:59] Yeah.
[01:33:00] Yeah.
[01:33:00] I love that.
[01:33:02] So I'll get you with the last one here.
[01:33:05] You know, we're all sitting in our seats because of experiences that brought us to this point
[01:33:09] and people who've invested in us over time.
[01:33:13] And, you know, fire service being what it is,
[01:33:16] we don't always know when those people are going to come in or come out of our life.
[01:33:19] You now, Lieutenant Mike Nasty, looking back, if you could thank people, who would you thank?
[01:33:28] Why would you thank them?
[01:33:29] And just give them an idea of how their role in your life brought you to where you're sitting now.
[01:33:37] There, there's four people.
[01:33:41] Three of them I really can't talk about because they're on my job.
[01:33:44] They know who they are.
[01:33:48] And if for some reason they're, they're convoluted on it and they're listening to this,
[01:33:53] they're listening to this podcast.
[01:33:55] I've talked to three of them for actually all four of them within the last 24 hours about work.
[01:34:00] They'll know what it's about.
[01:34:01] Nothing bad.
[01:34:04] They know about it.
[01:34:05] One, one guy is now part of our department who wasn't before.
[01:34:08] I've known him since I was a teenager.
[01:34:09] I knew him when I was 15 years old.
[01:34:10] And, you know, I've told him this directly.
[01:34:13] I told him this when I first got promoted to Lieutenant that I wouldn't be who or where I am,
[01:34:18] who I am or where I am in my career, in my life, if it wasn't for his guidance, his foot in my ass,
[01:34:23] and just being an overall good person and mentor and filling the gap for that father figure in my life.
[01:34:30] And he knows who he is and I'll leave it at that.
[01:34:33] The other guys, you know, both picked me up kind of when I was a screw up officer.
[01:34:39] I did a lot of stupid things.
[01:34:41] I did nothing but screw everything up and I was in a bad way.
[01:34:45] You know, I still had that firefighter mentality with officer responsibility.
[01:34:50] Not in a good balance either.
[01:34:52] Like you have to think as an officer, you know, you have to be the officer.
[01:34:55] And like I talked about before being able to deliver and I never fully appreciated that.
[01:35:00] And those two kind of really put their foot in my ass and operationally and in a day-to-day fire department way.
[01:35:08] You know, they know who they are.
[01:35:11] And I've thanked them multiple times.
[01:35:13] There's definitely no...
[01:35:15] It's very clear that they know who they are and where they stand in my career.
[01:35:19] And I wouldn't be where I am without them, especially when it comes to the confidence of my podcast.
[01:35:23] You know, they're always kind of cheering me on, you know, talking to me.
[01:35:26] Like, you know, and when I screw up, hey, you know, hey, MF or come here.
[01:35:29] And they crush you, like just slam you.
[01:35:33] And, you know, typically when I screw up, I know it's coming.
[01:35:35] So the last person would be my father-in-law who, like I said, he passed away.
[01:35:41] And he was always that father figure I always wanted.
[01:35:44] And he was there.
[01:35:45] And I only had him in my life for a short period of time.
[01:35:47] And it kind of sucks, but always there for me.
[01:35:50] I think he was more excited for me when I got promoted than I was.
[01:35:54] He was awesome.
[01:35:55] He really was.
[01:35:58] You know, and unfortunately, he's not around anymore.
[01:36:01] And I know he'd be very proud of everything.
[01:36:04] I just, I wish I could have kept him around longer.
[01:36:06] Or I wish he would have stayed around longer.
[01:36:07] Excuse me.
[01:36:08] Didn't get sick and would have stayed around long enough for me to be able to bounce a lot of these things off of in my life recently, in my career recently.
[01:36:15] And just like some officer stuff.
[01:36:17] I really, you know, really wish I still had that resource.
[01:36:20] He's actually, I don't know if you're gonna be able to see this.
[01:36:22] He's right.
[01:36:23] This is when I got promoted.
[01:36:24] He's right here.
[01:36:24] His name's John McNeese.
[01:36:26] And that's my brother-in-law, Danny.
[01:36:27] And he's another dude.
[01:36:28] I don't think I give Danny enough credit.
[01:36:30] I really don't.
[01:36:31] And, you know, he's great.
[01:36:32] You know, he's in the same level in his career as I'm at.
[01:36:36] You know, and him and I talk a lot about work.
[01:36:38] And he's had a lot of impact on me.
[01:36:41] He's my brother-in-law.
[01:36:44] Obviously, my wife's brother.
[01:36:46] You know, that's actually somebody I want to make sure I add to him and give him credit.
[01:36:50] You know, as well, people have kind of really developed me.
[01:36:53] There's a few other guys.
[01:36:54] And, you know, they knew who they are.
[01:36:56] And I'm very clear with people where I stand about a lot of that.
[01:37:00] So I apologize for naming a bunch of people.
[01:37:03] But, you know, one thing I was always taught is that it takes a village, right?
[01:37:07] It's never one person.
[01:37:08] It's you're going to grab things from different people.
[01:37:10] You're going to be a mentor, have a mentor, all that.
[01:37:13] And, you know, I always try to surround myself with the people I want to be, right?
[01:37:18] So, like, the old saying is, if you hang out with five millionaires, you'll be the sixth.
[01:37:23] If you hang out with five marathon runners, you'll be the sixth.
[01:37:26] If you hang out with five losers, you're going to be the sixth.
[01:37:28] If you hang out with five drunks, you'll be the sixth.
[01:37:31] All that.
[01:37:31] So, you know, and even running with runners, you may not, you know, break records, but your time's going to increase.
[01:37:38] You may not be able to keep up with them.
[01:37:39] They're going to dust you.
[01:37:39] But you're going to be able to keep up with them, and you're going to get better.
[01:37:42] So, you know, I, yeah, I think that's kind of where I'm at with that.
[01:37:47] Hell yeah.
[01:37:48] That's awesome.
[01:37:48] All right.
[01:37:50] So, Mike, thank you.
[01:37:52] Sure.
[01:37:54] We appreciate you coming on.
[01:37:57] It seems like you have a lot of lessons that you've learned in your career, and I'm sure that those lessons will help others as well.
[01:38:08] As you can pass that on to other guys.
[01:38:13] So, it seems like you're rocking and rolling in PG.
[01:38:17] So, hopefully you keep going to fires, and you finish out your career strong.
[01:38:23] I appreciate that.
[01:38:24] Thank you.
[01:38:25] Thanks again for the opportunity.
[01:38:26] It's definitely an honor.
[01:38:27] Like I said, I know who you guys are.
[01:38:28] I've followed you guys for a long time.
[01:38:30] And to be, again, like I said in the beginning, to even be in the arena or the discussion, to be a part of anything you guys have going on is truly an honor.
[01:38:39] And I greatly appreciate it.
[01:38:40] Thank you.
[01:38:41] Thank you.
[01:38:42] I really appreciate it, man.
[01:38:43] All right.
[01:38:43] Hopefully, maybe we can do a part two, because it seems like we can talk for hours.
[01:38:48] You just let me know.
[01:38:50] I'm down.
[01:38:51] All right.
[01:38:51] Cool.
[01:38:51] Sounds like a plan.
[01:38:52] We'll wrap this up, and stick tight.
[01:38:55] Yeah.
[01:38:55] Stay on.
[01:38:56] All right.
[01:38:57] All right.
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