Episode #4 - Captain Zane Riggs

[00:00:36] Yeah, I was taking a picture of your face real quick.

[00:00:38] My face?

[00:00:39] Yeah, you're the big fucking DJ of EG.

[00:00:44] It's easier for me to talk with one off so I can hear myself.

[00:00:48] Because when you have this, I can't hear myself right now and I feel like I sound like a fucking idiot.

[00:00:54] So I need to hear myself.

[00:00:55] You just need to be able to hear yourself through the thing that I can't hear myself anymore.

[00:01:01] Yeah. Ever since you came here.

[00:01:05] I don't know if we fucked something up, but whatever.

[00:01:07] We're getting there.

[00:01:08] It's alright.

[00:01:09] Alright, welcome back to The Job That Built Me podcast with James, Rich, and our guest today, Zane Riggs.

[00:01:19] Zane, thanks for joining us today.

[00:01:22] Hopefully we don't have any technical difficulties this time.

[00:01:26] But we'll see.

[00:01:29] So, Zane, what's going on?

[00:01:31] What's going on guys? I'm glad to be here.

[00:01:32] We're finally, we've finally made this happen.

[00:01:36] Monarch.

[00:01:36] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[00:01:38] I'm glad to have you here.

[00:01:39] It's been, it's been some, a few months since we, since we started planning it.

[00:01:44] But thanks again for joining us.

[00:01:48] So, tell us a little about yourself.

[00:01:50] Man, I work for a, a fairly large urban department in the southeast.

[00:01:56] Um, in the city that I grew up in.

[00:01:59] I've been on the, been on the job for 13 years.

[00:02:02] This past spring, got promoted to captain.

[00:02:06] And so I'm still, you know, somewhat still adjusting to, to the new role of, uh, riding in the front right seat.

[00:02:14] And, uh, you know, uh, getting my sea legs there, but, uh, on a busy engine company and, uh, thoroughly enjoy it.

[00:02:23] That's really all I've ever done is work on busy engine companies.

[00:02:26] So, uh, to have that assignment after a promotion, like, you know, captain, uh, was a perfect fit for me.

[00:02:32] So, so that's, that's what's going on.

[00:02:35] Cool.

[00:02:37] How'd you, uh, how'd you get started in fire service?

[00:02:41] So I grew up, uh, in the inner city, um, you know, all through the nineties, early two thousands, I grew up in the East Nashville community.

[00:02:52] And back then it was the place to be as far as, uh, fires and things like that went or vacants.

[00:02:58] There were, you know, the, the neighborhood was, um, it was quite a bit of crime.

[00:03:02] I don't want to make it sound like I grew up in Harlem, you know, during the war years or anything, but there were, you know, I mean, it was, uh, there were challenges back then.

[00:03:10] And so I saw a lot of fire activity as a kid.

[00:03:14] Uh, and then even when I was 12 or 13 years old, my best friend's house, there was one house between us, their house burned.

[00:03:22] Um, and what I now recognize was a really good fire thinking back on it.

[00:03:27] It was rocking.

[00:03:29] Um, but those experiences seeing constant, uh, there's a historic engine company that was close to me that I would walk down and hang out.

[00:03:39] And, um, when I was probably 14 or 15 years old, my grandparents bought a home in another community.

[00:03:45] And if you walked all the way through their backyard, it would go, it would take you to the firehouse parking lot.

[00:03:50] And, um, I got the nerve to walk down there one day and, and in all honesty, and I've told the guy this because his son's on the job now, but I walked in the bay and somebody opened the door, um, and said, Hey, young man, you want to come in?

[00:04:05] And that was probably the most pivotal moment as, as a, as you know, again, 14, 15 years old.

[00:04:12] And I honestly, I never looked back when I stepped inside and hung out and started learning the shifts and started hanging out.

[00:04:18] I was like, yeah, this is it.

[00:04:19] Like most kids, like most young guys, you know, you want to be a fireman.

[00:04:22] Everybody says, you know, I grew up wanting to be a fireman, but I was really serious about it.

[00:04:26] And so that moment was pivotal.

[00:04:28] And I, and I told him that years after I came on, I was like, dude, I don't know if you know this or not, but when you open the door and asked me if I wanted to come in, that altered my life.

[00:04:37] Like it literally did.

[00:04:38] It altered my life.

[00:04:39] I mean, had he not done that, maybe I would have found my way here.

[00:04:42] I don't know, but that was a, that was a pivotal moment.

[00:04:45] So again, just growing up around fires and in the inner city, seeing that sort of action.

[00:04:49] And then that experience there, that's, that's, that's what led me here.

[00:04:54] Hell yeah.

[00:04:55] Is that guy still on the job?

[00:04:56] He is, he's retired, but his son is on now.

[00:04:59] And at some point again, I worked an overtime shift with his son.

[00:05:03] And I said, you know what, for years, I've been meaning to tell your dad that that was something because after that moment, I spent the next probably seven or eight years of my life hanging around that firehouse.

[00:05:15] Um, I grew up there and I had no, you know, my dad wasn't a fireman, no family experience.

[00:05:22] It was just that, that interaction.

[00:05:24] And then hanging around there for the next seven or eight years or however long it was.

[00:05:28] I mean, I hung around a firehouse until I got hired, but that was a pivotal moment.

[00:05:31] And I said, I need, you know, I need to get in touch with your dad and tell him that.

[00:05:36] That's pretty awesome, man.

[00:05:37] That's awesome.

[00:05:37] It goes to show you that you're not making just a difference when you're on the fire ground.

[00:05:41] You're doing it.

[00:05:42] Absolutely.

[00:05:42] Yeah.

[00:05:42] And, and I always, you know, we don't have a community of kids where I work now necessarily.

[00:05:48] It's a, it's a business, it's a really super busy intersection, but I work in the inner city and we, the bay doors were always up.

[00:05:56] Anytime we saw kids, there's a basketball goal in the bay.

[00:06:02] And I think that's a, the fire service that needs to be protected.

[00:06:15] We got to keep doing that.

[00:06:15] Keep the doors up.

[00:06:18] Absolutely.

[00:06:20] That's awesome.

[00:06:21] So we got where you came from.

[00:06:24] We got where you are now.

[00:06:26] We hit who you, who shaped you a little bit.

[00:06:28] That's awesome.

[00:06:29] Tell us about your first fire.

[00:06:30] Do you remember it?

[00:06:31] I do remember my first fire and, and, um, a lesson was learned that I actually didn't figure

[00:06:37] out until, I don't know, maybe years later, um, fourth on an engine company, we get bumped

[00:06:42] out and, um, you know, it's, it's obvious we've got, we've got a fire.

[00:06:46] I was so amped up that I remember fire, but that's about it.

[00:06:54] I pulled the line, got in there and was knocking down fires.

[00:07:00] I, I melted my mask.

[00:07:03] Um, it was blow torching out of this bay area.

[00:07:08] Um, I melted my mask and at the time I thought it was really cool.

[00:07:15] Um, and it, and again, it took me some, I think I even had some pads on the back.

[00:07:19] Hey man, great job.

[00:07:20] Good job.

[00:07:21] And it wasn't until I started, I didn't know anything.

[00:07:24] It was just brand new.

[00:07:26] I just wanted to be aggressive and show everybody that I was, you know, capable.

[00:07:30] It wasn't until probably two years down the road where I was, you know, I was like still

[00:07:35] learning.

[00:07:35] I'm still like, man, I almost ended my career on what I think was essentially a car fire

[00:07:40] inside of a building with some other, you know, I mean, just, just one room.

[00:07:46] Um, it, it was, you know, it was almost a failure.

[00:07:51] And I, I, I looking back on it, I was like, man, I wish somebody would grab me and be like,

[00:07:55] Hey, Hey dude, this is not, this isn't necessary.

[00:07:58] You know, we, we, but that was my first fire.

[00:08:01] And again, it wasn't until years later that looking back on it, I was like, I made a huge

[00:08:05] mistake there.

[00:08:06] And I wish somebody had, had taught me a lesson about that.

[00:08:08] But, uh, again, I think it was just essentially a car fire in a building.

[00:08:12] It was my first fire.

[00:08:16] I, that's pretty awesome.

[00:08:18] I wanted to catch that out the gate and you're like, all right, that's a good blower.

[00:08:21] But you also have that perspective.

[00:08:23] Now look back as a more seasoned guy, like, you know, maybe I can correct somebody else

[00:08:29] coming down the road.

[00:08:30] 100%.

[00:08:31] Yeah.

[00:08:31] Uh, there's, there's a better way of doing this.

[00:08:33] You know, aggressiveness is good, but if you, you know, if you, if you end your career,

[00:08:38] cause you're, cause you're taking in, you know, hot air in your lungs, then you have done

[00:08:41] anybody and yourself any good.

[00:08:43] And so, you know, again, years later I was like, okay, I, I, I had that mask for a long

[00:08:49] time cause I thought it was so cool.

[00:08:52] And I threw it away at some point.

[00:08:53] Like, you know what?

[00:08:54] This, no, this isn't it.

[00:08:56] Um, I'm all for, uh, having some things that we can look back on, burn up helmets and

[00:09:00] those sorts of things.

[00:09:01] We need to make a push, but that wasn't, that wasn't it.

[00:09:04] And so I threw it away.

[00:09:05] I was like, you know what?

[00:09:05] This isn't, I don't, I don't want this thing anymore.

[00:09:10] So I like it.

[00:09:11] I like it.

[00:09:13] So, uh, would you say that that's, uh, your most impactful fire?

[00:09:18] Do you have another fire that comes, comes to mind?

[00:09:21] No, I don't even think about that one very much.

[00:09:23] It hadn't, in fact, I hadn't thought about it in years.

[00:09:25] My most impactful fire was, uh, my time in the, uh, south, uh, east community

[00:09:32] of where I work.

[00:09:33] Um, we had an apartment fire one night where we ended up making several grabs.

[00:09:38] That was about four of my most impactful fire.

[00:09:41] Uh, middle of the night, excuse me, middle of the night, it came out as an apartment fire

[00:09:46] with people trapped.

[00:09:48] But when we got there, the people that were trapped were accounted for.

[00:09:54] We actually had them shelter in place.

[00:09:56] Um, there wasn't any indication that in this particular apartment, there were people trapped.

[00:10:00] Um, it's a heavy fire blowing out of the third floor window.

[00:10:05] We get stretched up, go in, um, make our way to the fire.

[00:10:09] And the push wasn't any big deal.

[00:10:11] Smoke was banked down, but it wasn't high.

[00:10:13] It wasn't, you know, no big deal.

[00:10:14] Um, get to the fire room.

[00:10:16] And just as I start blacking the fire out, I hear my captain yell behind me.

[00:10:22] Uh, it's, it's kind of muffled, but I hear him say, how do I get out?

[00:10:26] And about that time I realized he had a, he had a kid that was just outside of the fire

[00:10:31] room in the kitchen and, um, kind of help him get oriented, get his way and find his way out.

[00:10:38] And, uh, we're up there by ourselves.

[00:10:41] We've got a ton of companies coming, but this was an easy push.

[00:10:45] I think to myself, I need to do a search real quick.

[00:10:48] Like I need to go back and check it.

[00:10:49] I passed some rooms on our way in to the, uh, to the fire room.

[00:10:53] And I go back and find probably, I think there were four, four kids on a mattress that was on the floor.

[00:11:00] Um, good positioning for them.

[00:11:04] Uh, because the fire was vented.

[00:11:07] It was still, it wasn't a great atmosphere, but it wasn't the worst.

[00:11:12] Um, grab one of the kids, uh, made my way out with them.

[00:11:16] And then as, as other, as other crews were coming up to, uh, to get the others, it was a mess.

[00:11:21] There were, there was a, you know, there were, uh, crimes committed.

[00:11:25] Um, and some people have since been sentenced to long prison terms for leaving the, for leaving the kids there by themselves.

[00:11:34] Um, uh, infant was lost in the fire room.

[00:11:38] Uh, so that was by far the most impactful fire.

[00:11:41] And that thing it drug on for years because of the court case, you know, it would, you know, they sent us an email.

[00:11:46] So you're going to have to come to court and it would get delayed, you know, all that, you know, how that goes.

[00:11:50] And so it finally concluded, I guess, probably this, uh, this past winter.

[00:11:56] So that was by far the most impactful fire that I've had.

[00:12:00] Wow.

[00:12:01] Wow. How do, uh, how do you think that's changed your career since then?

[00:12:08] That's not speaking for myself exactly.

[00:12:12] Um, but that fire altered some careers.

[00:12:15] I've, I've talked to one person in particular who said that they hadn't been the same since.

[00:12:21] Um, and that person is one hell of a fireman, somebody that you would want with you no matter where you were just that they felt like it changed them, you know?

[00:12:33] Um, and they, they, they did, they got the, they carried out the worst one.

[00:12:40] Um, you know, for me for a while, anytime I would come down, we have a two story home.

[00:12:46] And anytime I would come downstairs holding my little girl, it would, I I'd remember carrying the little girl down these stairs on the way to the ambulance.

[00:12:57] And it also taught me, we walked into this down this hallway again, because the conditions weren't, the conditions weren't bad.

[00:13:06] But had I been, um, crawling or at least, uh, tripodting down this hallway, I may have seen them on the floor when I passed the first time.

[00:13:19] Wow.

[00:13:19] So I tell people about that, like, you know, they tell you, if you can't see your feet, you need to be crawling, whatever.

[00:13:25] And, but we, all of us, we walk up, right?

[00:13:27] If the conditions aren't bad because it's easier to move that way, we don't know.

[00:13:30] I don't think we always have to be crawling, but there is the advantage of getting down low and seeing into these rooms and getting the layout.

[00:13:39] And I tell people, um, I tell people that story sometimes, especially the younger guys like, Hey, you know, we're walking right now, but we can't really see what's what's low.

[00:13:50] And this, this happened to me.

[00:13:51] And so, you know, it worked out.

[00:13:54] They, they were, I don't think they were any worse for the wearer, but, uh, I, I did think about that, about that afterward.

[00:14:01] Wow.

[00:14:01] That's incredible.

[00:14:03] Definitely impactful and lessons learned that you can share that make other guys better and improve yourself.

[00:14:09] I mean, who knows the, the benefits long-term from that.

[00:14:14] Yeah.

[00:14:14] How many guys are better because of that?

[00:14:16] Yeah.

[00:14:16] That's awesome.

[00:14:18] Yeah.

[00:14:20] Huh.

[00:14:20] So how, how are the guys in the firehouse?

[00:14:24] Did you guys like band together closer after that or?

[00:14:27] Yeah, we, we, we did.

[00:14:28] I feel like there's a connection now.

[00:14:31] Uh, we all that time at that engine cup was super busy engine company.

[00:14:35] And we all went there together.

[00:14:37] It was, we had a game plan and it worked out.

[00:14:41] And man, it was such a blast.

[00:14:43] My, my captain is just, my captain then was just, again, he's just, just the best.

[00:14:48] That was something else I've talked about regarding that fire too.

[00:14:52] With the people we had that night, the crew we had, there was so much comfort in knowing that it didn't matter what we're going to business is going to get taken care of.

[00:15:05] And I'm confident in these guys enough that I know that if I want, if I get jammed up or we're good, but that's likely not even going to happen because these guys are so good.

[00:15:16] But there was a lot of comfort going to that fire that night.

[00:15:19] I remember him turning around and looking at me and just, just giving the nod.

[00:15:22] Like, and we didn't say a word.

[00:15:25] There was no exchange of, there was nothing.

[00:15:29] It was quiet going.

[00:15:30] Uh, we were just listening to the information that we had in the days after and the weeks after we just sent an occasional text.

[00:15:38] Like, Hey, you know, how's everybody doing?

[00:15:41] Everybody good.

[00:15:42] Um, didn't talk about it as much at the firehouse.

[00:15:46] I don't think, but it was just like, um, I remember again, the first time that I came down the stairs holding my little girl.

[00:15:55] Uh, she was probably two at the time, two or three, pretty close to the age of the girl that I brought out.

[00:16:02] And I texted him.

[00:16:03] I said, dude, I just came down the stairs with my little girl for the first time.

[00:16:06] And it's right back.

[00:16:08] And, you know, we, we text back and forth for a little bit.

[00:16:11] Like, Hey, if you need anything here, we need to get together.

[00:16:14] We can.

[00:16:15] Um, but yeah, I feel like anytime we see each other now, we don't mention it, but we, we know we've got that bond.

[00:16:23] I'm sure.

[00:16:25] Yeah.

[00:16:26] I had a very similar experience recently with the, you get that kind of bond with guys and you're like, I don't, it's very hard to put into words that comfort and just the, like the, the unspoken was like the head nod, right?

[00:16:42] Yeah.

[00:16:42] Head nod or the, like the bro hug and it's like, what's up, bro?

[00:16:45] Like, yeah.

[00:16:46] What's going on?

[00:16:47] But like, yeah, we're right there.

[00:16:49] Like one of the, one of the shitty things about incidents like that is it also brings back other incidents into your head.

[00:16:57] Um, like you start thinking about everything that, that you've experienced and it's, uh, it's not fun.

[00:17:04] Yeah, for sure.

[00:17:06] And you know what we went, I work in an engine company, a couple of, a couple of engine companies, a couple of firehouses away from that, that particular engine company.

[00:17:15] And we passed that apartment complex the other day.

[00:17:18] Uh, it was terrible.

[00:17:20] It was just, it was so busy.

[00:17:21] We were way out of our area, but we made a call up in that general area.

[00:17:25] We passed it.

[00:17:27] And I realized that as we were going down the street and passing this particular apartment complex, I was like, I still don't want to see that damn place.

[00:17:35] I mean, I just, I don't like, I, it's, it's, you know what I mean?

[00:17:39] It's, I, I, in all honesty, don't feel like I have any sort of, I don't dream about it.

[00:17:45] I don't think about it every day or anything like that.

[00:17:47] But when I get in the general area, that feeling comes back of like, ah, man, that, that sucked.

[00:17:54] That should have just been a, a good first in easy peasy fire.

[00:18:00] And it turned into something, you know, different.

[00:18:04] And, and it was something that it didn't have to, it didn't have to be.

[00:18:10] It was this shitty parents, um, shitty parenting that were more worried about going out to the club, uh, than they were being at home with the kids.

[00:18:20] It was, you know, just so unnecessary, but you know, we, we did the absolute damnest we could.

[00:18:27] We got out fast.

[00:18:28] We got out super fast.

[00:18:30] We got stretched fast.

[00:18:31] You know, it, uh, the outcome for them was as good as it possibly could have been.

[00:18:37] Yeah.

[00:18:38] You did all you could.

[00:18:39] Yeah.

[00:18:39] You said three, three out of the four, uh, ended up surviving.

[00:18:44] So I think, man, I always get my numbers mixed up, but there were three or four on the mattress in the room.

[00:18:49] Off the hallway, which again, thank goodness they were on the floor.

[00:18:54] There was one just outside of the fire room.

[00:19:00] That was, that was badly burned.

[00:19:03] Uh, but did survive.

[00:19:06] Uh, kind of been trying to find out where, where, where he is.

[00:19:10] I just, I haven't heard been able to hear of anything if he's in state custody.

[00:19:15] I mean, like, I don't know.

[00:19:16] Uh, and then the infant in the fire room.

[00:19:18] So I think three or four, three or four total that survived.

[00:19:22] Um, and then when it did not.

[00:19:24] So your department makeup, is it mostly engines?

[00:19:30] Like, do you guys have truck companies and.

[00:19:32] Yeah.

[00:19:32] We're, we're pretty engine heavy.

[00:19:35] Um, yeah, we've got, so right around 40 stations.

[00:19:40] Um, we're, we're pretty engine heavy.

[00:19:43] Yes.

[00:19:43] We have many trucks and a couple of towers, um, several heavy rescues.

[00:19:48] Um, but yeah.

[00:19:51] What are you getting on a box?

[00:19:53] So on a regular house fire, uh, three engines, uh, truck company, heavy rescue, a couple of different chiefs.

[00:20:00] Um, and then there's a, there's also a rip response as well, which is an additional engine truck.

[00:20:08] So we were able to throw a lot of people at a fire.

[00:20:11] I mean, we can, we're, we're a very aggressive department.

[00:20:14] Um, and so, you know, again, because we've got personnel to, to throw at it.

[00:20:22] Cool.

[00:20:23] That's I'll just try to figure out.

[00:20:24] Cause coming from the Northeast, we get a career side.

[00:20:27] You get a very truck, dry truck and engine attack based.

[00:20:32] Like these are your specific tasks.

[00:20:35] And this is what you do.

[00:20:36] Curious if you guys are the same, because you guys said you went in the search.

[00:20:39] Like, did you have truck companies there rescues at the same time?

[00:20:41] Or do your engines search off the line while you're also, they were on the way.

[00:20:46] They were on the way.

[00:20:47] They hadn't gotten there quite yet.

[00:20:49] This is again, this isn't our first do and it wasn't too far, uh, from the, from the firehouse.

[00:20:56] So, and I got to preface this too.

[00:20:58] I like firehouse, the term firehouse better, but around here it's fire hall.

[00:21:05] Um, yeah.

[00:21:06] Yeah.

[00:21:07] And you know, something that's weird is I heard somebody, what was I watching?

[00:21:10] What was the, what's the documentary?

[00:21:11] The, uh, about the, about the bikes, about the motorcycle guys.

[00:21:15] Um, that was released a few years ago.

[00:21:18] The, uh, the guys that are, you're like PTSD firemen, uh, like PTSD.

[00:21:23] Oh yeah.

[00:21:23] I know what you're talking about.

[00:21:24] I forget.

[00:21:25] What was it?

[00:21:26] What's the name of it?

[00:21:27] Eddie, you're right.

[00:21:28] I got it.

[00:21:29] Florian's, uh, St. Florian's.

[00:21:31] Yeah.

[00:21:31] Something like that.

[00:21:32] All right.

[00:21:33] So one of the Canadian guys said, uh, mentioned his fire.

[00:21:37] Yeah.

[00:21:38] They big in Canada, fire hall.

[00:21:40] So I thought that, which makes me want to say firehouse even more.

[00:21:44] Cause you know, I say fire hall in Canada, but.

[00:21:46] I would have thought it would have been fire station.

[00:21:49] Yeah.

[00:21:49] It's weird.

[00:21:50] It's weird.

[00:21:51] Uh, it's usually the Southeast is usually fire station.

[00:21:55] Really?

[00:21:56] I've heard, I think fire hall around here and there's some, I think maybe, uh, Alabama

[00:22:00] or somewhere.

[00:22:02] There's another, there's another area that refers to it as a fire hall.

[00:22:05] And I've never been able to find out how that got started here or why that, that particular

[00:22:09] phrase is used here.

[00:22:11] I'm not sure.

[00:22:12] Hmm.

[00:22:12] Firehouse to me is so much more classic and tells so much more about fire hall.

[00:22:17] Sounds like a, the community, you know, you know, building with, with no meaning, you know,

[00:22:24] firehouse, you know, it's our house, you know, 24 hours at a time.

[00:22:30] And what's your shift schedule?

[00:22:32] 24 on and a 48 off.

[00:22:36] Not bad.

[00:22:38] It's a, yeah, I mean, it's, it's what everybody is used.

[00:22:41] You know, it's just, it's how we've always done things.

[00:22:43] I don't, uh, it is a very busy department.

[00:22:47] My engine company is going to do 53, 5,400 runs this year.

[00:22:50] So that, um, is that EMS included?

[00:22:54] Yes.

[00:22:55] Yeah.

[00:22:56] Okay.

[00:22:56] Yeah.

[00:22:57] Um, got off this morning.

[00:23:00] And so some, the night wasn't terrible last night, but the nights were usually pretty

[00:23:04] brutal.

[00:23:04] Um, but that's not, it wasn't, wasn't too bad.

[00:23:09] There you go.

[00:23:10] You say we all worked last night then.

[00:23:12] Yeah.

[00:23:13] James is a little bit busier night than most of us.

[00:23:16] Yeah.

[00:23:16] Sounds like it.

[00:23:17] Yeah.

[00:23:18] Yeah.

[00:23:19] I'm, I'm feeling it this morning.

[00:23:22] And Noah's a Mando.

[00:23:25] So yeah, no, we'll see how his, we'll touch base with him.

[00:23:29] I haven't gotten to my Noah yet.

[00:23:32] Noah's solid dude.

[00:23:33] Real solid dude.

[00:23:34] What age did you get on Zane?

[00:23:37] I was 29 when I came on the job, which felt to me was, I mean, to me, it felt older

[00:23:42] and I, and it is in all honesty, if you can, you can, you know, if you can come on at

[00:23:46] 21 or some guys that start volunteering when they're 18 or 19 or even younger than that,

[00:23:51] 29 felt young to me, but, or felt old to me, but that's, that's how it worked.

[00:23:56] I did some time, uh, some, some government time, uh, previously to that.

[00:24:02] So, um, you know, I had a foot in the door, I guess you said, you could say, but I came

[00:24:08] on the job when I was 29.

[00:24:10] No, I, I think coming on the job is actually pretty solid as well.

[00:24:14] Like I came on when I was 29 as well, like career side, but I volunteered from when I

[00:24:19] was way younger, but you have so much more perspective and you have, you've had real jobs.

[00:24:24] Yeah.

[00:24:25] Like we were just talking about this yesterday work and there's a difference between guys

[00:24:30] who come in at like 18 or 19 and a little later.

[00:24:33] Cause you never swung a hammer when it was 20 degrees out.

[00:24:36] So, so when you start complaining about shit and you're like, Oh, this is terrible, man.

[00:24:40] Like, no dude, working outside sub freeze and banging your thumbs with a hammer.

[00:24:44] That's bad.

[00:24:46] Yeah.

[00:24:46] Being a fireman is pretty damn good.

[00:24:48] Right.

[00:24:48] No doubt.

[00:24:48] And I, you know, I do see that in young guys.

[00:24:52] So we have a, so I'm the coordinator for, we have a, we have a mentor program for, for recruits.

[00:24:59] Um, and I'm the coordinator for that.

[00:25:03] And, um, seeing that the 21 and 22 year olds, man, they are, and I'm thinking about myself

[00:25:11] when I was 21 or 22, I don't know that I could have handled this job at 21 or 22.

[00:25:15] I was an idiot and, uh, you know, not very mature and just wanting to do what, what Zane

[00:25:23] wanted to do.

[00:25:24] Um, I think, you know, physically we all want to be, you, you want to start this as, you know,

[00:25:29] when you're young, but, uh, mentally, you know, I don't, you know, I try not to look back and

[00:25:36] regret too much, but I, you know, physically I wish I would have come on a little bit younger,

[00:25:40] but, um, you know, I think 29 was probably good for me.

[00:25:44] You know, I, again, like you said, had some perspective.

[00:25:50] Yeah.

[00:25:50] I think perspective is huge in this and especially for what we're doing, right?

[00:25:55] Because say 21 year old, you comes across that job with the kids.

[00:25:59] How does 21 year old, you react to that?

[00:26:02] How does that shape you?

[00:26:04] Drinks.

[00:26:05] So yeah, drinks a lot.

[00:26:07] 100%.

[00:26:07] That and whether you have your own kids as well.

[00:26:10] Right.

[00:26:11] Yeah.

[00:26:12] That changes everything.

[00:26:15] But, uh, we all get here in our, the right time in my opinion, but that's pretty well.

[00:26:22] So you've been on, you said 13 years now?

[00:26:25] Yeah.

[00:26:25] Mm.

[00:26:26] Okay.

[00:26:27] Is there anything you right now would tell you when you got on?

[00:26:31] If you could.

[00:26:32] Yeah.

[00:26:33] Slow down.

[00:26:34] Um, I was so eager to prove to, to people that I was not necessarily capable of doing

[00:26:44] the job that I was, that I was willing to do the job.

[00:26:47] Um, and I had a hard time slowing down.

[00:26:53] And I mean that physically and mentally, I ran off and left.

[00:26:57] Captain's, you know, wanting to go, wanting to go work.

[00:27:01] Um, somebody should have grabbed.

[00:27:03] I don't think it ever happened.

[00:27:04] We were talking about this recently.

[00:27:05] I wish somebody would have grabbed me and said, Hey man, listen, we appreciate what you're

[00:27:12] wanting to do, but you got to slow down here.

[00:27:14] One, we've got to stay together.

[00:27:17] Two, there's things you, you know, you don't know.

[00:27:20] Um, I was like a moth to a flame and I, and I wish I would have been able to tell myself,

[00:27:25] Hey, listen, slow down.

[00:27:27] You're here.

[00:27:28] You're good.

[00:27:29] You made it, but slow down and take this all in and listen to people.

[00:27:34] But I was just concerned about how I was viewed.

[00:27:39] You know, when you were, when you're a rookie, you just like, man, I want these guys to know

[00:27:44] that they can, you know, that they can trust me and that they can, they know I'm going to do my part.

[00:27:50] And I tried too hard to convey that.

[00:27:55] Yeah.

[00:27:56] Yeah.

[00:27:57] You want to try to prove yourself as fast as possible, but sometimes fast is not, not the right way to do it.

[00:28:03] Yeah, absolutely.

[00:28:04] I remember, I remember running off to this, this fire.

[00:28:10] I mean, I just, I got out and just like sprinted to this, this fire and, uh, my, uh,

[00:28:18] old getting ready to retire captain at the time.

[00:28:21] I didn't see him.

[00:28:22] I didn't see him for an hour and the smoke finally even started to clear and lift or whatever.

[00:28:26] And he was like, Hey buddy, where you been?

[00:28:30] And I wish at that moment he would have taken me outside.

[00:28:33] I mean, I do, I had a lot of respect for him.

[00:28:34] He was a good guy, but he had other things going on in his life.

[00:28:38] Um, and in the fire service was starting.

[00:28:41] I mean, it was, you know, he was close to retirement and, uh, I wish he had taken me outside and said, Hey man, listen,

[00:28:49] appreciate the enthusiasm, but you, you, you did, you went about this the wrong way.

[00:28:54] And so when I can, I take the opportunity to, to, um, to tell guys that to slow down.

[00:29:03] I mean, I think you're in the right place for that now too.

[00:29:06] It had you not had those experiences or had that motivation.

[00:29:10] Although youth is, uh, interesting and like you're, you always want to go, but now you're in a position where you've had those mistakes and you can relay that.

[00:29:20] Like the mentorship program sounds pretty awesome.

[00:29:22] Tell us a little more about that.

[00:29:24] So it got started a number of years ago, um, was 100% accepted by the department, by the top brass.

[00:29:34] And, um, it kind of got, I wouldn't say stagnant, but the person that was running it, admittedly said, I just, I haven't done much with it and gave it up.

[00:29:45] They had other things going on.

[00:29:46] So I guess, uh, two years ago now I took over the program and it's, you know, it's not performance based.

[00:29:56] This is just strictly mentorship.

[00:29:59] It's just, um, if you have no experience in the fire service.

[00:30:03] So when they come out of the academy, um, or just before we go down and talk to them, tell them about the mentor program.

[00:30:09] What's going to happen.

[00:30:10] You're going to be assigned somebody, you're going to be assigned a firefighter, uh, an engineer, a captain, somebody out in the field.

[00:30:17] We're going to pair you up with them.

[00:30:18] Here's their contact.

[00:30:19] Here's their information.

[00:30:21] If you have any questions, if you're not sure what to do in a particular time, call them, get in touch with them, fill them out, ask them about the, about their experiences.

[00:30:32] Just learn from them.

[00:30:34] Um, I've got to give chief Scott Thompson and the colony fire department in Texas, a shout out.

[00:30:40] I reached out to, uh, to chief Thompson when I took the program over.

[00:30:44] I had, I didn't know him, um, but he graciously, uh, talked to me over the phone, uh, guided me.

[00:30:52] Um, just gave me some pointers on how to advance the mentor program, what I needed to do.

[00:30:59] He literally wrote the book on mentorship for, if anybody doesn't know, you can go on, uh, his website, forgive me.

[00:31:06] I forgot what it is, but you can download a copy of, uh, mentor programs in the fire service for free.

[00:31:12] And so chief Thompson has been, you know, a mentor of mine and helping me with this program.

[00:31:18] But, you know, again, there's so many, there are so many benefits to it.

[00:31:23] Identifying problems out of the gate and being able to maybe alter somebody's career.

[00:31:27] Um, it, you know, statistics show that you're able to, your turnover rates not as high when you have a mentor program.

[00:31:34] Um, and so it's, it's been good, man.

[00:31:38] It's been, you know, going down and talking to, we've, we've had a lot of recruit classes in the past few years and continue to.

[00:31:44] And towards the end of their stay, uh, myself and a couple of others go down and talk to them.

[00:31:49] And it's just cool seeing, you know, being in the room with recruits, you know, you put yourself in that seat all over again.

[00:31:57] And, uh, it's, it's, it's a good thing.

[00:32:02] That's, uh, that's awesome, man.

[00:32:03] I wish, uh, more departments had something like that because the things we're going to these days and we're getting involved with, and also the kids we're getting in.

[00:32:12] I think it just beneficial for everyone to, there's, there's kind of leading up and leading down on that.

[00:32:18] Where older guys are learning about the younger guys and on the flip side, they're kind of picking up on the ways of what we're doing.

[00:32:25] Absolutely.

[00:32:26] And you never, you know, those relationships, you never know who is going to end up and listen, it's a department, this, this size, a big department.

[00:32:35] You know, there's always, you know, I don't want to say the politics word, but you never know about relationships, right?

[00:32:42] I mean, you make relationships early on with somebody and they advance or you advance and you're able to, if you maybe want to change something in the department, you have a hand up in doing that.

[00:32:56] There's just, again, we encourage them just to make, listen, make relationships.

[00:33:00] You're not going to like everybody.

[00:33:01] That's cool.

[00:33:02] But make relationships, start out now and get your career off to a good start.

[00:33:06] So again, the program is, it's, it's good.

[00:33:11] Things are going well.

[00:33:12] That's phenomenal.

[00:33:13] How do you, how do you identify mentors?

[00:33:17] So it is really anybody that wants to be, we give an opportunity to be.

[00:33:26] Usually a couple of times a year, we'll reach out and say, Hey, you know, we need more mentors.

[00:33:32] We need more mentors on the street.

[00:33:33] If anybody's interested, let us know again, because the, now the program is it's a formal program.

[00:33:41] So they do have to go through a quote class.

[00:33:45] Can I teach you how to be a mentor?

[00:33:47] No, I can't teach you how to be a mentor, but because it is recognized, there is this sort of, you know, class that we have to put on and whatnot.

[00:33:56] And so we feel like if somebody is, is going to use their, you know, their time to do this, we should give them the opportunity.

[00:34:08] Now, look, they have to hold up their end of the bargain.

[00:34:12] It's, it's, it's up to the mentor and the mentee that, that, you know, it's only successful if they're communicating.

[00:34:19] Now they don't have to communicate daily or anything like that.

[00:34:22] But if we hear of a recruit, reaching out to somebody and they're not getting a response or they're not meeting their expectations, then we just don't use them again.

[00:34:33] Um, because they have to be available.

[00:34:37] It, the, the relationship is allowed to do whatever, as far as.

[00:34:42] Now we get a lot of people who, um, have experience elsewhere.

[00:34:47] So do they need somebody to guide them on what to do at shift change?

[00:34:52] Probably not.

[00:34:53] Um, but for those who, who need that, you gotta be there to answer that question.

[00:34:58] Uh, when available, what we've been able to do is because our departments big in the past.

[00:35:03] We had, um, you know, even if you were paired up with somebody, they may be on a different shift at a different firehouse across the city.

[00:35:12] What we were able to do, um, and it always, it doesn't always work out, but what we were able to do is pair them up.

[00:35:18] If you, once they're assigned to a particular area that their mentor is in that area as well, so that they can have some one-on-one time.

[00:35:26] Um, and again, it's not necessarily about training them on how to pull hose or, uh, you know, cut a hole in the roof or anything like that.

[00:35:34] But that's, if that's what they want to do, then that's available too.

[00:35:38] Wow.

[00:35:38] That, uh, it also, it also helps, uh, even if they have experience elsewhere, it helps them navigate, um, the aspects of, of your department specifically.

[00:35:50] Yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, cultures, it doesn't matter if they're, you know, not if they're from the next county over or next city over or whatever, our culture is different than theirs.

[00:35:59] So yeah, 100%.

[00:36:01] Yeah, that's, that's incredible, man. And I wonder how much, uh, how much that also helps the mentors in their career path and their growth.

[00:36:09] Like as they age through a department too, that's, uh, that program seems really, really awesome.

[00:36:15] I'm pretty jealous to be honest with you.

[00:36:18] That's, uh, again, uh, Chief Thompson was instrumental in helping me, uh, to just advance it into, you know, again, it can be done anywhere.

[00:36:30] Uh, it, but again, it has to be the, the, the fire department itself. They have to be on board with it.

[00:36:38] Um, and I think he says, if you can get your mentor program to last five years, it'll be around from, from there on.

[00:36:46] And I think ours is probably right around five years old at this point.

[00:36:54] So we can just have two years. See how it goes.

[00:36:56] Yeah.

[00:36:59] Oh, there you are.

[00:37:00] There we go.

[00:37:01] Yep.

[00:37:01] Got you back. I might've glitched there for a minute. So two years, we'll give you a shout and make sure you got it still.

[00:37:06] Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

[00:37:08] You got it.

[00:37:09] Uh, Scott Thompson, Chief Scott Thompson, he's the man.

[00:37:12] I mean, I've seen him a couple of times speaking like the wisdom that that guy pours out.

[00:37:16] And I imagine it's cause he's been mentored by some really great individuals.

[00:37:19] And like James and I are friends with a couple of guys from the colony.

[00:37:23] That is a top notch ecosystem that they're building.

[00:37:27] It sure seems to be.

[00:37:29] Yeah, sure seems to be. And he's so, he's very gracious with this time.

[00:37:32] I texted another day. He texted me right back.

[00:37:34] Uh, I felt like it was really cool.

[00:37:37] There was a few weeks ago and I'll give somebody else a shout out that has, that's mentored me that has,

[00:37:43] it has no business talking to me because he's such a, uh, Captain Bill Guston.

[00:37:48] Um, great guy. I have gotten to talk to and have gotten to know since I was promoted this past spring.

[00:37:56] He was one of the first person again, I didn't know him either, but I reached out to him and just said, Hey man, listen, I just got promoted.

[00:38:02] Uh, give me, give me some, give me some ideas here. Give me your thoughts on the position.

[00:38:08] And, uh, and one week I remember talking to chief Thompson and then Captain Guston.

[00:38:12] And I was like, man, this is, I was so honored for, for firemen to talk to people like that.

[00:38:18] It's like, I'm talking to professional athletes, you know?

[00:38:20] In fact, I would rather talk to them than professional athletes.

[00:38:24] These guys are, they're legendary and again, gracious with their time and always willing to help.

[00:38:29] So I was, I was thinking that was cool.

[00:38:31] I told my wife, I was like, I know you don't know who these people are, but I've just, in a matter of days, I've talked to both and I'm so freaking honored.

[00:38:40] Yeah.

[00:38:40] It's pretty incredible how, uh, how big the fire service is and how small it is once you get outside your own department.

[00:38:47] So did you fall into this by people pushing you from your department outside or did you step outside your department and start meeting these people?

[00:38:57] I just stepped outside of it and wanted to meet these people.

[00:38:59] I just, you know, uh, for all the bad that there is in social media, there's a lot of freaking good too.

[00:39:07] And this, I mean, this is a prime, you know, blue college prime example.

[00:39:12] Uh, social media has made me a better fireman.

[00:39:15] I mean, 100% the, the, the, the sites that are out there, Bobby Eckert and his site top floor tactics, this place.

[00:39:24] Um, there's so many, you know, little communities like this, that have made me a better fireman.

[00:39:30] And I've reached out to people again, like Captain Gustin and chief Scott Thompson and, and several others.

[00:39:39] Um, I reached out to Adam mayors.

[00:39:42] Uh, we were doing some sort of hose, some sort of hose work.

[00:39:46] I reached out and got in touch with Adam mayors.

[00:39:48] Uh, everybody, like you said, everybody's so accessible.

[00:39:51] If you want some info, it's there.

[00:39:53] You just got to reach out there and get it.

[00:39:56] Um, Miami was doing something.

[00:39:57] Oh, Miami.

[00:39:59] I gotta, I gotta give him a shout out.

[00:40:01] And I, uh, let me make sure I get his name right.

[00:40:04] So I don't mess it up here.

[00:40:06] Uh, Lieutenant, uh, Captain Gustin got me in touch with Lieutenant Shane Pyle in Miami.

[00:40:12] Shout out to Lieutenant Pyle.

[00:40:13] We were wanting to change one of our cross lays.

[00:40:16] And they were doing something in particular that I really liked.

[00:40:20] So Bill Gustin said, call, call this guy.

[00:40:23] Didn't know him, call him, get in touch with him.

[00:40:25] The next shift he works.

[00:40:27] He FaceTimes me.

[00:40:29] He's got his crew out in the bay.

[00:40:32] And they deploy, they deploy both of these lines.

[00:40:37] And re-racked them just to show me how it works.

[00:40:41] And we're honored to do it.

[00:40:43] And I was like, man, that is so cool.

[00:40:47] This guy didn't, this guy didn't know me at all, but he was like, Hey Zane, this is what we're doing, man.

[00:40:52] We're going to show you how this works here, whatever.

[00:40:55] And again, took the time to get out there and deploy both of these lines and say, Hey, this is how it works.

[00:41:00] These are the subtleties of it.

[00:41:01] This is how you re-rack it.

[00:41:03] And, uh, it was really cool.

[00:41:05] So like you said, man, the fire service, everybody's willing to help.

[00:41:10] If you, if, if you want to make what you're doing better, if you want to make your engine company better or your truck company better, there are always people that you can reach out to.

[00:41:18] They're more than willing to help.

[00:41:19] And that's what's been really cool about talking to people outside of my department.

[00:41:24] That's it.

[00:41:25] That's outstanding.

[00:41:26] Yeah.

[00:41:27] Social media has definitely, um, brought us closer as a fire service with accessibility.

[00:41:34] So just like within over the last five years, the amount of people that I've been able to contact and talk to and, and, uh, ask questions and everybody has been, I haven't had one person say like, I don't want to talk to you.

[00:41:50] Right.

[00:41:51] Right.

[00:41:52] Nothing's proprietary in this job, man, or at least it shouldn't be.

[00:41:55] I think there are sometimes people that hold on the info.

[00:41:58] They're few and far in between.

[00:42:00] Mm.

[00:42:02] So, uh, did, I'd ask you, did you come into the fire service with this motivation?

[00:42:06] You just a naturally motivated guy.

[00:42:07] Did something motivate you to perpetually be better?

[00:42:13] No, I, um, in fact, if I'm honest, the fire service is really the only thing that, that I.

[00:42:25] Um, I don't have any major hobbies.

[00:42:27] I'm a big family guy.

[00:42:28] I've got a wife and, and, and two daughters and, uh, I'd rather spend, you know, a day doing whatever with them than really anything else.

[00:42:36] But the fire service in itself, I find like, if you were to ask my wife, you know, like, Hey, did he remember to do this or that?

[00:42:48] She'd be like, no, like, you know, I don't remember shit around here.

[00:42:53] But if you ask me, if a random stranger asked me what kind of nozzles we have on our cross, oh yeah, we've got task force tips.

[00:43:01] Do we'll break?

[00:43:01] Yeah.

[00:43:01] I mean like, you know, there's something about the fire service and I think it's because.

[00:43:08] I really care about how I'm seen by other firemen and my crew.

[00:43:17] And I know you're not supposed to care what people think, but man in the fire service for me, I do.

[00:43:23] I do, I care about my reputation.

[00:43:26] I care about the way my crew sees me.

[00:43:28] I care about the way my chief sees me.

[00:43:31] Um, and other people, it mean, it means a lot to me.

[00:43:34] So I've found myself always trying to get better and learning things, you know, as, as, as much as I can.

[00:43:45] Yeah.

[00:43:45] I would say, uh, you're leading by example pretty damn well.

[00:43:49] I appreciate that.

[00:43:50] I hope so.

[00:43:52] As a captain who's running the mentorship program, who's reaching out to guys outside of the department to have this wisdom and you're bringing it back and passing it on.

[00:44:01] I mean, that's just, it's proof in the pudding, man, that the constant betterment is only gonna be better for the department and for the people we serve at the end of the day.

[00:44:11] So, I mean, that's, uh, something to be proud of, man.

[00:44:13] I'd give yourself a pat in the back.

[00:44:15] Probably don't, but I'd give yourself a pat in the back for that.

[00:44:17] I appreciate that.

[00:44:18] I hope, you know, again, I do.

[00:44:20] I hope at the end of the day, they'll, you know, you know, they tell us where they don't tell us, but we have saying, you know, we're just a number.

[00:44:26] If we retire today, they'll replace us.

[00:44:28] And there is truth to that.

[00:44:30] But I do hope at the end of the day, like I hope when I'm not there, they, that there's a noticeable difference in that, um, in that engine company.

[00:44:40] Um, again, I just, I do, I care about my reputation a lot.

[00:44:43] I really do.

[00:44:44] It probably, it may be sometimes too much, but, uh, it does.

[00:44:48] It matters to me.

[00:44:51] Yeah.

[00:44:51] As it should.

[00:44:52] Yeah.

[00:44:53] As it should.

[00:44:54] I'd rather someone care about the reputation and be apathetic and not give a shit.

[00:44:57] Yeah.

[00:44:59] Yeah.

[00:45:00] Yeah.

[00:45:01] There's no winning in that one.

[00:45:03] Yeah.

[00:45:04] Yeah, for sure.

[00:45:05] And you do hear that, like, I don't, I don't care what they think.

[00:45:07] Like, and again, there's, I guess there's a fine balance there, but I've always cared about what other firemen, of anything, what firemen think to me matters.

[00:45:20] Yeah.

[00:45:22] No doubt.

[00:45:25] So it seems like you got a good bit tucked under your belt these days.

[00:45:30] What more do you want to accomplish in fire service?

[00:45:31] Well, I'll be honest at this point.

[00:45:36] I'm, I'm really not sure.

[00:45:38] Um, this, this recent promotion was my absolute goal.

[00:45:45] I felt like when I, when I, when I got this, this position, when I got this captain's job that I was like, man, I made it.

[00:45:54] This is what I wanted to do.

[00:45:56] This is, I wanted to have my own crew on a busy engine company.

[00:46:00] I've made it.

[00:46:03] Now, um, you know, could I, would I be content doing this from here on out?

[00:46:09] Yeah, I believe I would.

[00:46:11] I believe I would, but I want it.

[00:46:14] I want to continue the, uh, the mentor program.

[00:46:17] And, you know, we'll, when the time comes, will I test for chief?

[00:46:24] Yeah, I'll probably test for it.

[00:46:26] Do I want, I mean, do I want, I don't, I don't know.

[00:46:28] I can't honestly answer that right now.

[00:46:30] I'm so content at the moment that I can't really say whether that, that interests me right now.

[00:46:37] Um, I think being able to still do just to be a down and dirty.

[00:46:44] I'm a pretty fireman, but also lead from the front.

[00:46:47] That's satisfies me.

[00:46:48] That's that's it's, uh, again, I think content is the best word I can possibly use right now.

[00:46:55] I'm very content with what I'm doing.

[00:46:56] That's awesome.

[00:47:01] Yeah.

[00:47:02] Um, so moving on a little bit further, um, what would you see yourself doing in retirement?

[00:47:11] Oh man, I'm going to have to have some hobbies, probably hiking.

[00:47:16] I do enjoy hiking quite a bit.

[00:47:18] Um, just being with, with the fam, you know, uh, I've got a 15 year old daughter and a six

[00:47:24] year old daughter.

[00:47:26] Um, so just family stuff.

[00:47:30] Um, I don't, um, I'm, I'm somebody that's perfectly content hanging out at home.

[00:47:35] Like I said, with them just to just chill in.

[00:47:37] But I know the girls won't, the two girls won't always be here.

[00:47:40] So hopefully we'll travel a little bit.

[00:47:42] And, uh, you know, I hope to be, it's my goal, if nothing else to be physically healthy.

[00:47:51] Um, I try to, and I don't try, I do, I eat pretty clean.

[00:47:56] I stay active.

[00:47:58] Um, it's my goal to when I decide to retire and I want to retire on my own time, I'll

[00:48:05] be one of those guys that probably stays longer than he has to.

[00:48:09] Um, my dad's 75.

[00:48:12] He's still extremely active and didn't want to retire when he did.

[00:48:16] So I think I'll probably be one of those guys.

[00:48:18] It's like, why is he still here?

[00:48:21] But as long as I'm still physically able to do it, I want to, but I want to leave here

[00:48:26] physically.

[00:48:27] You know, again, my goal is to leave here physically healthy that if I want to go out and go for

[00:48:31] a, uh, six, seven mile hike or whatever, when I retire that I can do that.

[00:48:38] Uh, I got respect for that big time.

[00:48:41] I don't want to be forced out.

[00:48:42] I kind of want to go on my own.

[00:48:44] I kind of hope to stay as long as I can.

[00:48:46] But, uh, I don't know if my wife would know what to do if I was home all the time, every

[00:48:52] day.

[00:48:53] Yeah.

[00:48:53] I don't think you need to go do something.

[00:48:56] Yeah.

[00:48:56] I don't think any wife does.

[00:48:58] And I noticed too, I'm sure it's the same for you guys, man.

[00:49:00] If I, if I'm off more than one, two is my max.

[00:49:06] Two is my max.

[00:49:07] And I got to get back.

[00:49:09] I got to get out of here.

[00:49:10] Like I can't, it's not, you know, it's not because I don't love my family or anything,

[00:49:13] but I just, I feel like I'm, I gotta, I just, I need to get back in that routine.

[00:49:18] Um, any more than two shifts off, man.

[00:49:21] And my wife notices, she was like, you're, you're, you're restless.

[00:49:24] You got to get back.

[00:49:25] Yeah.

[00:49:26] Yeah.

[00:49:27] I know that feeling.

[00:49:28] My wife cracks up.

[00:49:29] I go on vacation.

[00:49:30] And if I'm home for like two weeks, I have like the yarn and the push pins on the wall.

[00:49:34] I'm figuring shit out.

[00:49:36] She's like, you got to go back to work.

[00:49:37] You got too much time on your hands, man.

[00:49:39] Yeah.

[00:49:39] I got to get back and make a medic run.

[00:49:42] Yeah.

[00:49:43] Yep.

[00:49:43] Exactly.

[00:49:45] Oh man.

[00:49:46] That's funny.

[00:49:47] So, uh, go ahead James.

[00:49:50] What you got?

[00:49:50] Uh, I was, I was going to say, uh, if you could.

[00:49:54] Off the top of your head, if you can make any class, um, training or conference mandatory

[00:50:01] for every, uh, for the entire fire service, what would you choose?

[00:50:07] So I'll have to say that I haven't been, but FDTN, I think by far would be my number one

[00:50:16] answer because I, I, my understanding is yet.

[00:50:19] I haven't been, I hope to be able to go, but that, that the experience that you get there,

[00:50:24] is as close to the real thing as you can possibly get.

[00:50:27] And I, we do not train in that kind of environment enough.

[00:50:32] Um, we just don't, the academies don't do that for the most part, the conferences, you

[00:50:38] can't really, I mean, you can only get so close, but I think FDT and in a way that I,

[00:50:43] I, plus the, the, the guys that they have, uh, chief Lombardo, um, and the crew that they

[00:50:50] have up there, you couldn't possibly come away with from that place and not have learned,

[00:50:54] um, a good number of things.

[00:50:57] I think I would also say inside fire training, chief Andy Starnes and all the TIC stuff that

[00:51:03] they do.

[00:51:05] I, I, our TIC, you know, the, the, the thermal imaging that we have now is so capable, but

[00:51:12] I don't think it's used correctly.

[00:51:14] And I'm including myself in that.

[00:51:16] Um, I just don't think we know enough about it.

[00:51:19] And the chief, the, all the stuff that, uh, that Andy Starnes and his cadre are teaching,

[00:51:24] I think is extremely valuable.

[00:51:27] Um, I've been to a number of conferences, but I, I think those, those two, I would, I

[00:51:34] would recommend.

[00:51:37] Hell yeah.

[00:51:39] FDT and seems to be the, uh, the common theme in, in a lot of people that we talk to.

[00:51:44] And, uh, it's definitely on, on my agenda to, to make it out there in the next couple of

[00:51:51] years.

[00:51:51] For sure.

[00:51:52] Yeah.

[00:51:52] One of the guys on my crew, uh, has been, he just, it was just like, is it, is incredible.

[00:51:57] He said, Hey, don't wear your leather helmet there.

[00:51:59] Don't take your leather there and, uh, find some, uh, find some gear that you can scrap afterward.

[00:52:05] You know?

[00:52:06] And again, just the things I hear about it and the, and the way that they go about it, it

[00:52:10] just, you know, um, who's, who else is it?

[00:52:13] So chief Lombardo, Timmy Klett, McCormick, and some other, just, just led to the

[00:52:20] team.

[00:52:21] And, uh, Bob Pressler, um, I want to get up there before Pressler and Lombardo retire.

[00:52:27] Uh, one of my most, one of my favorite pickups, you know what?

[00:52:30] I should have sent this picture in my most prized.

[00:52:32] One of my most prized pictures in the fire service is me standing between, uh, Pressler

[00:52:37] and Lombardo at a, uh, at a conference.

[00:52:40] And I was, man, I was high on that for, for days.

[00:52:43] So I mean, those guys don't know me from just, I'm a nobody, but, but they, you know, we,

[00:52:47] we sat and talked for a long time and I was like, I got to get a picture with you guys.

[00:52:51] It's, it's a great picture.

[00:52:53] Yeah.

[00:52:53] Our city, our city hosted a, uh, hosted a conference with them a number of years ago.

[00:52:58] Um, or, or I should say our union sponsored it.

[00:53:02] Um, and I didn't, I didn't realize at the time how big it was to have both of them in

[00:53:05] one room until now.

[00:53:08] And, uh, the amount of, like I stood outside talking to, to chief Lombardo, just like he

[00:53:14] was asking us about our rigs and just talking to him.

[00:53:18] I'm like thinking back now, I'm like, wow.

[00:53:21] Yeah.

[00:53:22] It's, uh, yeah.

[00:53:23] Yeah.

[00:53:24] The amount of knowledge that, that those two have, it's unbelievable.

[00:53:28] And he's a sweetheart.

[00:53:30] Like an absolute gentleman of a man nonchalantly talking to them.

[00:53:34] And it's just like, it was crazy.

[00:53:36] Yeah.

[00:53:37] Yeah, for sure.

[00:53:40] So you seem like you're into things quite a bit.

[00:53:43] And this is a pretty common question across most podcasts.

[00:53:47] Books.

[00:53:47] What do you got?

[00:53:48] What kind of books have influenced you?

[00:53:50] Where, who would you recommend a new guy read or a middle guy?

[00:53:55] Like what kind of shapes your worldview if it comes to books?

[00:53:58] If you have books.

[00:53:59] I got a ton of books, whether I finished them or not is really debatable.

[00:54:03] My damn ADHD, man.

[00:54:04] I, it's got to dial me in.

[00:54:06] It's got to dial me in quick or else I'm like, all right, 12 pages in.

[00:54:10] I've tried, but that one on the shelf.

[00:54:12] Um, I always tell the new people, you got to read report from engine company 82.

[00:54:17] You just, I mean, you got to read that one.

[00:54:19] It doesn't, it has nothing other than just the fire service itself.

[00:54:24] It's going to give you a view that, that, um, of what they did back in the day.

[00:54:29] And that, that book is just, it's fun to read.

[00:54:32] It's amazing what they were doing during the war years.

[00:54:36] And, uh, at FDNY.

[00:54:37] I got to read that one.

[00:54:39] It's going to give you a false sense of reality, you know, because we're not going to be doing

[00:54:43] that kind of work, but it's, it's a must read.

[00:54:47] I know leadership gets hammered a lot.

[00:54:49] It has for the past few years.

[00:54:51] It's like, all right, we've heard leadership is important, but geez, man, I can't read another

[00:54:55] book on.

[00:54:56] However, um, Gary Appleby, a chief, a retired chief from Philadelphia road for me and my

[00:55:04] personality, the best by far the best leadership book I've ever picked up.

[00:55:08] It's called leadership values and an introspection.

[00:55:13] It's written in a way that you can see yourself in every one of these pages.

[00:55:19] Uh, again, at the end of the chapters, there's an introspection and you, you like, you'll read,

[00:55:26] like, do I do this?

[00:55:28] Do I, do I not do this?

[00:55:30] It's wonderful.

[00:55:31] It's, it's written so well.

[00:55:33] It's written for a fireman.

[00:55:34] It's an easy read.

[00:55:36] Um, it's not just some leadership book about, um, I don't know what's going on.

[00:55:41] I don't, I don't know how to describe it, but it's, it pertains so much to the fire service

[00:55:46] and he uses fire scene examples.

[00:55:49] It's really well done.

[00:55:50] Uh, for those who are tired of this, just the standard leadership book, go out and grab,

[00:55:54] um, leadership values and introspection by Gary Appleby.

[00:55:59] Wow.

[00:56:00] Okay.

[00:56:01] Yeah.

[00:56:01] That's the list.

[00:56:02] Yeah.

[00:56:03] Yeah.

[00:56:03] We haven't heard that one yet.

[00:56:04] That's a, you know what?

[00:56:06] It's not for whatever reason.

[00:56:07] It's not very popular.

[00:56:08] I know that Gary Appleby doesn't do interviews and podcasts.

[00:56:13] He's done, he's done one.

[00:56:16] Um, and I can't remember which one it was.

[00:56:19] They had to beg him to do it, but he doesn't, he doesn't do social media.

[00:56:23] He doesn't do something.

[00:56:24] Maybe that's, that's why, but it's, I'm telling you, it's the best one.

[00:56:30] Yeah.

[00:56:30] Definitely add it to the list.

[00:56:32] Yeah.

[00:56:37] So you get to have dinner at the kitchen table.

[00:56:40] You get to pick whoever's there, any fireman, anyone you want one dinner, who you're going

[00:56:46] to have, and we'll give you an engine and a truck company.

[00:56:49] You can, if you want to go that far, you can pick everyone that's sitting there.

[00:56:52] Oh man.

[00:56:53] So I was looking at this question.

[00:56:55] So are we doing living or dead or either, or anywhere in the world?

[00:57:01] Yeah.

[00:57:01] Any, any, any, either.

[00:57:02] Or.

[00:57:03] So one of, one of our chiefs in the early 1900s, who was the, was the chief during when

[00:57:10] motorized apparatus were first introduced to this city and who was also the chief when,

[00:57:17] um, one of the great fires happened.

[00:57:19] And we're talking about numerous, numerous city blocks.

[00:57:23] I would want to talk.

[00:57:24] I would want, I'm just curious.

[00:57:27] I would want to know where, what he thought about where we were now.

[00:57:30] Um, lessons from, from that time period.

[00:57:35] Um, how he went about, uh, forming the fire department, you know, that, that's a, that was

[00:57:41] a humongous change going from horses that the men cared about so much to motorized apparatus.

[00:57:49] I know that that, you know, firemen in chains, you know, I can't imagine what that was like,

[00:57:54] how he implemented that, how he, you know, how he got them on board with that.

[00:58:00] I've always been curious about what it was like, you know, during the early 1900s, um,

[00:58:08] in a city that was growing to, to be the fire chief and to somebody else that from a distance

[00:58:15] seems like just the greatest person.

[00:58:18] And I've never, I don't have the privilege of knowing him, but Jeff Shoup, uh, out of Cleveland.

[00:58:25] I would love to sit down and have a firehouse mill with Jeff Shoup.

[00:58:29] He's taught so much about engine work and about hose work and that sort of stuff.

[00:58:32] We brought a brass tacks and, uh, I haven't seen him in a while.

[00:58:35] I hope he's doing well.

[00:58:37] Um, he just seems like such a gentleman.

[00:58:41] I would like a, like a dinner on him.

[00:58:44] Outstanding.

[00:58:47] That's awesome.

[00:58:49] All right.

[00:58:49] So we've been going for about an hour now.

[00:58:52] Um, got anything else, Rich?

[00:58:55] Yeah, I got the, the unwritten question.

[00:58:57] The last one in the drop on you.

[00:58:59] I think, you know, so often we go through this career and the only time you get to really

[00:59:05] say nice things about a guy is when you unfortunately get to go to his wake or give a eulogy.

[00:59:10] But, uh, if you had the chance right now and you can thank people for where you are today

[00:59:15] in your career, you know, in your life, who would you think just so like you can memorialize

[00:59:19] it and at least, yeah, maybe they see it and they know if they listen.

[00:59:24] The guys who took me in, again, when I was a teenager and allowed me to hang out with

[00:59:28] them and all that entrusted me to be around, to be around the firehouse.

[00:59:33] I feel like I often think about them.

[00:59:36] I owe my career to them.

[00:59:37] I see one of the retired guys at the gym every now and every now and again, and, uh, he

[00:59:43] was instrumental.

[00:59:45] Again, they were just so trusting of me.

[00:59:47] Um, just some, you know, kids from the neighborhood coming and hanging out.

[00:59:52] Had they not let me hang out there.

[00:59:54] I mean, I don't know.

[00:59:54] I don't know if things would have changed or not.

[00:59:57] I feel like maybe they would, but I owe those people my career.

[01:00:01] Um, because it helped shape me.

[01:00:04] It helped.

[01:00:06] Um, when I, you know, learn, I learned the culture, so it may come in a little bit easier.

[01:00:12] Um, I'm grateful.

[01:00:14] I'm beyond grateful to those guys that, uh, and I bounced around once I found the fire firehouse.

[01:00:20] I started out hanging out at was not the last one.

[01:00:24] I figured out as time went on, the first one I started hanging out at wasn't very busy.

[01:00:29] They were in a kind of an outline community.

[01:00:31] I started figuring out like, like they're having a lot of fun in the ghetto over there.

[01:00:36] I think I want to go see what's going on.

[01:00:38] And the same thing, I went to it and they welcomed me in and there was one in an even worse neighborhood.

[01:00:44] And I was like, kind of like what those guys are doing over there.

[01:00:47] So I went over to that one and they welcomed me in.

[01:00:50] Um, and you know, they, they shaped how I went about things.

[01:00:56] When I got on the job, I was like, I just want to be like those guys.

[01:00:59] And, uh, so again, I'm grateful for, for all of them allowing me to come in and have meals with them and make calls with them.

[01:01:07] And, um, they did a great service to me.

[01:01:13] Uh, that's hard to beat that.

[01:01:16] Right.

[01:01:17] Hard to beat that right there.

[01:01:18] That's the good shit.

[01:01:19] That's the fire service.

[01:01:21] Yeah.

[01:01:22] So.

[01:01:23] Oh, James, that's all I got.

[01:01:26] I think, uh, I think we can wrap it up then.

[01:01:28] Um, but, uh, saying thanks for, for joining us today.

[01:01:33] We, uh, we appreciate you taking the time.

[01:01:36] Yeah.

[01:01:37] Thank you guys so much for having me, man.

[01:01:38] I'm honored.

[01:01:39] Uh, I know I'm not doing the training portion of this, but I have no business doing the training portion of this with the guys you've got, you've had on, you know, the past several months.

[01:01:47] I'm, uh, I'm honored to show my face on blue collar.

[01:01:50] You've had some, you've had some solid dudes doing some training stuff recently.

[01:01:53] So, uh, kudos to you guys for what you're doing for the fire service, man.

[01:01:58] Thank you.

[01:01:59] Yeah.

[01:01:59] Hopefully we can, uh, continue for, for many years to come.

[01:02:04] Hopefully.

[01:02:06] So stick with us after we kill the recording, but, uh, really appreciate it, man.

[01:02:10] Cap. Thank you.

[01:02:11] Thank you guys.

[01:02:12] Thanks.