Episode # 3 - Chief Dennis Reilly | The Job That Built Me

In this episode the hosts chat with Fire Chief Dennis Reilly, a 50-year fire service veteran, retired Fire Chief, and owner of The First Line Fire Service Training Company. Chief Reilly served as the Fire Chief in Pittsburg, KS, Sunrise Beach, MO, an Assistant Chief in North Carolina and California and retired as a Battalion Chief in Cherry Hill, NJ. He was an original member of New Jersey Urban Search and Rescue Task Force 1. Reilly holds a master’s degree in public administration from Penn State University and is a CFO. He speaks at numerous events, including the Command Officer Boot Camp and the Orlando Fire Conference. Reilly is a U.S. Army veteran who served in Iraq during the Operation Desert Storm.

[00:00:35] [SPEAKER_03]: How did you get into the fire service?

[00:00:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I've been asked that question a couple of times and I gotta tell you, I can't ever

[00:00:46] [SPEAKER_02]: remember wanting to do anything other than be a fireman.

[00:00:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I told the story a couple of weeks ago.

[00:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I actually went into the service in 1976 so that I could get out and claim the five veterans'

[00:01:03] [SPEAKER_02]: points for the FDNY test.

[00:01:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's all I ever thought about doing was being an environment.

[00:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: Both times I got out of the service, I was getting ready to get out of the service.

[00:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: They weren't giving the test.

[00:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: So I just re-enlisted and over the course of time, I ended up going to work for county

[00:01:24] [SPEAKER_02]: EMS down there in North Carolina and then moved over to the fire side.

[00:01:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But from being a little kid, man, this is all I've ever wanted to do.

[00:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not really sure what drew me to the fire service, but the first opportunity

[00:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I had, I got involved.

[00:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And from that point forward, I just said, hey man, this is where I belong.

[00:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: This is a good fit for me.

[00:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: This is what I want to do.

[00:01:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And as I got older and I really started to appreciate what the service was really about and what

[00:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: we were tasked with doing, I just said, man, how could you want to do anything but

[00:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: this?

[00:02:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's the only way I can answer the question.

[00:02:11] [SPEAKER_03]: That's awesome.

[00:02:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Was there anybody in your family that was a fireman?

[00:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Nope.

[00:02:15] [SPEAKER_03]: I'm the first one.

[00:02:16] [SPEAKER_03]: Just cold turkey.

[00:02:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I broke the ground and my sister ended up being a volunteer.

[00:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: She went into the volunteers.

[00:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I grew up in a patch out on Long Island, out on the South Shore just east of the

[00:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: city.

[00:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And my sister ended up marrying one of the officers at Vanguard Ho's company and then

[00:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: she went into the volunteers.

[00:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: But me and her, only two in my family that have got any type of connection to the fire

[00:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: service.

[00:02:50] [SPEAKER_02]: We're in.

[00:02:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Is there something that when you were a kid kind of influenced you?

[00:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought it was a cool thing.

[00:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I just, you know, as a little kid, man, you know, the big red truck in the

[00:03:03] [SPEAKER_02]: sirens and you know, getting to, you know, run up and down the road and do all that

[00:03:08] [SPEAKER_02]: type of stuff.

[00:03:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I, by the side, grew up on an island so you know, volunteer

[00:03:12] [SPEAKER_02]: department was a big thing.

[00:03:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, parades on your Memorial Day and Fourth of July and, you know, racing,

[00:03:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, the fire department racing teams were a big thing back when I was

[00:03:23] [SPEAKER_02]: coming up in the 70s.

[00:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we had a track in town and I'd see the guys practicing.

[00:03:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I just thought, man, this is just so cool, man.

[00:03:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And then as I got older, as I got into junior high in high school, I realized

[00:03:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that, you know, I could do this for a living in New York City.

[00:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: So I started thinking about it and at the time, you know, they give the test,

[00:03:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, 100,000 people would take the test.

[00:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, man, how do I get an advantage?

[00:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So I started doing some research, going to the Army, going to the service

[00:03:52] [SPEAKER_02]: AIM branch and you get five veterans points and that's where it all started.

[00:03:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But I can't think of any one thing that pushed me to say, this is what I want to

[00:04:04] [SPEAKER_02]: do. It's just a combination of everything.

[00:04:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember when I was growing up, this is, you know, before pagers or anything

[00:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and they had sirens and the whistles would go off and we still had

[00:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: street boxes in town.

[00:04:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So you could count, you know, you could count the whistle, the whistle blast

[00:04:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and figure out, I had a chart.

[00:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew where the street boxes were.

[00:04:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So I'd jump on my bike, you know, I'd look at the chart, you know, five,

[00:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: four, three is the intersection of Medford and Oaks.

[00:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd jump on my bike and ride over to the intersection of Medford and

[00:04:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Oak and, you know, just kind of watched the fire trucks.

[00:04:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So and I just that never left me.

[00:04:43] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the older I got, the more, you know, the more drive and ambition

[00:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I had to make that a big part of my life.

[00:04:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, once I got into the career, it just got better and better.

[00:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I started to promote and that just opened a whole new set

[00:05:02] [SPEAKER_02]: of doors of the things I was able to do, you know, in training

[00:05:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and mentoring and coaching and all that.

[00:05:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Excuse me, all that other stuff.

[00:05:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And it just, it just got better by the day.

[00:05:15] [SPEAKER_03]: Outstanding.

[00:05:17] [SPEAKER_03]: Where did you get started in the fire service?

[00:05:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Patchogg Long Island as a junior.

[00:05:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I was 16 years old and I went on the juniors and I stayed on the juniors

[00:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: until I went into the service.

[00:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, once I got, you know, once I got through training or whatever,

[00:05:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I spent two years in the 82nd Airborne and, you know, we were just

[00:05:40] [SPEAKER_02]: in the field all the time.

[00:05:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just, there was no, you know, that was really your life.

[00:05:46] [SPEAKER_02]: When I re-enlisted, I went on flight status as a medic.

[00:05:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I moved off post and I started volunteering in Spring Lake.

[00:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And from there, I moved closer to post.

[00:05:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to Bonnie Doon, a little community called Bonnie Doon.

[00:06:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I volunteered there and, you know, I eventually ended up

[00:06:02] [SPEAKER_02]: starting to work there for a time.

[00:06:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So and then from there, I just kind of worked my way.

[00:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I worked my way back to Jersey and then, you know, that's a whole never chapter.

[00:06:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Oh, I mean, take us to Jersey.

[00:06:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. So we spent a couple years in North Carolina, kind of bouncing around.

[00:06:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I went to Durham, North Carolina as a fireman when they first broke up

[00:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: the Public Safety Department.

[00:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Durham was a, Durham was like the big public safety department

[00:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: in the state and it just didn't really pan out for them.

[00:06:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So they split it into police and fire.

[00:06:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was in the first class that they hired as firefighters to, you know,

[00:06:40] [SPEAKER_02]: restaff the old Durham Fire Department.

[00:06:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I spent five years there and I ended up going to Cherry Hill, New Jersey

[00:06:46] [SPEAKER_02]: as a captain training officer for one fire district.

[00:06:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I stayed up there for 18 years.

[00:06:52] [SPEAKER_02]: We took during that time, we took six in the fire districts

[00:06:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and we merged them into one fire department.

[00:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I was the training officer, spent some time in training, went back out

[00:07:03] [SPEAKER_02]: on the line as a captain for about a year, took the battalion chief's test.

[00:07:09] [SPEAKER_02]: The first time they ever gave a battalion chief's test, I took the test

[00:07:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and I ended up, you know, coming out number one.

[00:07:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I got made, spent nine and a half years as a battalion chief.

[00:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I retired.

[00:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We moved to North Carolina.

[00:07:21] [SPEAKER_02]: My wife's parents were living up in the mountains

[00:07:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and her dad had passed away and she wanted to be close to her mom.

[00:07:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So we moved to North Carolina.

[00:07:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's when I went to work for Blackboard.

[00:07:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I spent three years in Iraq and Afghanistan doing some work

[00:07:34] [SPEAKER_02]: with Blackboard security.

[00:07:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Came back from there and that's when the old,

[00:07:40] [SPEAKER_02]: the whole fire chief thing started.

[00:07:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I ended up going to Sunrise Beach, Missouri for seven years as a fire chief.

[00:07:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I went out to Davis, California for a couple of years as an ops chief.

[00:07:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We went to Pittsburgh, Kansas for two years as a fire chief.

[00:07:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, all my fire chief buddies told me, you know,

[00:07:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to wake up one day and you're going to say, man, this is the day.

[00:08:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I woke up and, you know, I was 65 years old.

[00:08:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And I said, you know, this is the day because we'd already bought a house

[00:08:08] [SPEAKER_02]: down here at the beach and this is where we're going to end up anyhow.

[00:08:12] [SPEAKER_02]: But I, you know, originally I was going to work for like two,

[00:08:15] [SPEAKER_02]: two more years or whatever.

[00:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just woke up one day and it's, you know, it was time for a change.

[00:08:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know at that point.

[00:08:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that I'd done all that I could have done for the Pittsburgh Fire Department.

[00:08:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think chiefs get to that point, you know, you just, you've done all that you can,

[00:08:35] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, your shelf life is, is at zero now.

[00:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And a lot of chiefs don't realize that and they stay too long.

[00:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I just woke up and said, you know, this is a good time for me to go.

[00:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I retired and now I live here at the beach and I just,

[00:08:52] [SPEAKER_02]: I run my company.

[00:08:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I have a small company.

[00:08:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I travel around to teach speaking seminars and conferences.

[00:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And so that's where I am now.

[00:09:03] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a pretty incredible career.

[00:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Very impressive.

[00:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: It's it's, you know, I pinch myself, you know, when these days

[00:09:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I tell myself, you know, one of these days I'm going to wake up

[00:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and the dream is going to be over with.

[00:09:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to have to go to work, you know, digging ditches or,

[00:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, driving a dump truck or something.

[00:09:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when I look back at the 50 years, it's like, man,

[00:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't think it could have been any better.

[00:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, certainly, certainly, you know, there's been some tough times

[00:09:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and some bumps along the road.

[00:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, hell, everybody has them all in all, man.

[00:09:37] [SPEAKER_02]: Fifty years has just been a gift every day.

[00:09:41] [SPEAKER_03]: If I can sign up for that right now, I will.

[00:09:43] [SPEAKER_03]: That's incredible.

[00:09:45] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not bad, man. It's not bad.

[00:09:48] [SPEAKER_03]: It doesn't sound like it.

[00:09:49] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, so it's truly an inspiration to hear that.

[00:09:52] [SPEAKER_03]: How how was the merger in Cherry Hill?

[00:09:55] [SPEAKER_03]: Because James and I are both from Jersey.

[00:09:56] [SPEAKER_03]: We have a little idea of what it is now, but definitely not where you guys came from.

[00:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, man, it was it was something, you know,

[00:10:06] [SPEAKER_02]: it was the right thing at the right time.

[00:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: There were some politics that, you know, played into it

[00:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: that made it very, very difficult.

[00:10:17] [SPEAKER_02]: There were some personalities that played into it.

[00:10:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, at the time there were four or five career district fire chiefs.

[00:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So when you merged, there's only going to be one fire chief.

[00:10:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So you all can connect those dots anyway you want, man.

[00:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: There were five different contracts.

[00:10:35] [SPEAKER_02]: There were like three different work schedules.

[00:10:39] [SPEAKER_02]: We had some we had some companies

[00:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that had a very heavy volunteer presence.

[00:10:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We had some companies that had no volunteer presence and it was all career.

[00:10:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So there were a lot of things that we had to work for.

[00:10:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And it took a while, man.

[00:10:56] [SPEAKER_02]: There were some, you know, definitely there were some ruffled feathers

[00:11:00] [SPEAKER_02]: on certain sides of the aisle.

[00:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: So it took some time to kind of, you know, smooth them out.

[00:11:06] [SPEAKER_02]: It took some time to really create the vision for the future

[00:11:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and put the things in place that we had to put in place to get us there.

[00:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, one of the biggest things that we had going for us

[00:11:20] [SPEAKER_02]: is Roger Olshafer had retired as the commissioner in Philadelphia

[00:11:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and he had actually moved over to Cherry Hill

[00:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: a couple of years before to merge.

[00:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And he ended up taking a district chief's job in Cherry Hill.

[00:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So when we merged, he became our chief.

[00:11:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that, you know, you talk about putting the right person

[00:11:44] [SPEAKER_02]: in the right place at the right time.

[00:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Roger did so much to get us on a sound footing

[00:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and really position us for the future.

[00:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just can't say enough.

[00:11:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he promoted me.

[00:12:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he was he was the fire chief and he ended up

[00:12:03] [SPEAKER_02]: he's the one that promoted me to battalion chief.

[00:12:05] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, it was just it was something.

[00:12:10] [SPEAKER_03]: What year was that?

[00:12:11] [SPEAKER_03]: What year did you start?

[00:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: No, the whole thing started.

[00:12:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So I went there in like 89.

[00:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So all this jumped off in like 92, 93, I guess.

[00:12:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, somewhere about 92, 93, somewhere along there.

[00:12:29] [SPEAKER_01]: So I mean, what we can do.

[00:12:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, when we merge, I mean, we had we had different hose

[00:12:37] [SPEAKER_02]: loads on on engines.

[00:12:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you'd have three engines on a box assignment

[00:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and they pull up in there were three different hose loads.

[00:12:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, somebody had a flat, you know, somebody had the triple load.

[00:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, somebody else had a reverse horseshoe on their engine.

[00:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you'd move guys around when we started out.

[00:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we didn't have a big career staff, you know.

[00:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're having moved guys to different fire houses for covered.

[00:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you walk through the door and you look at the rig.

[00:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like, how does this come off to the rig?

[00:13:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I don't even I've never seen this hose load before.

[00:13:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was crazy.

[00:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we had some we had some companies that were really dialed in.

[00:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: They were kind of rock solid.

[00:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we had some companies that were more of a social kind of hang out

[00:13:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in the firehouse type thing at Bell's ring.

[00:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll go to a fire and see what happens.

[00:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So all those different pieces and parts had to be put together

[00:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: in a unified organization that was moving in one direction.

[00:13:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And Roger did a lot, you know, Roger did a lot to make that happen.

[00:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: So I didn't know, fortunately, I was promoted pretty.

[00:13:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I was promoted probably.

[00:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: A year and a half after the merge.

[00:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: So we were still really young.

[00:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was, you know, and I became battalion chief.

[00:13:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So I had a lot.

[00:13:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I had an opportunity to have influence on that process.

[00:14:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And man, I'm so thankful for that.

[00:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I mean, it just it just taught me so much

[00:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: on how to make decisions, how to lead people, how to craft the vision,

[00:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: how to build a team.

[00:14:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that I talk about that stuff now in seminars and some of the

[00:14:19] [SPEAKER_02]: presentations and some of the programs that my company does.

[00:14:23] [SPEAKER_02]: Man, I'm leaning back to like 1995, 1996 and drawing examples.

[00:14:30] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, talking about them today in two thousand and twenty five.

[00:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So it was it was something, man.

[00:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: It was something.

[00:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And I say, you know, for you guys that are in Cherry Hill,

[00:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you see Cherry Hill now and man, I'll tell you what,

[00:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: it's 30 years sounds like a long time.

[00:14:48] [SPEAKER_02]: But if you were there when I was there

[00:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and you see what it is now, it's like, wow,

[00:14:55] [SPEAKER_02]: how did this happen in just 30 years?

[00:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if there are places, I mean, I was just I was back

[00:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: in Cherry Hill a couple of months ago just kind of looking around,

[00:15:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, visiting, you know, talking to friends or whatever.

[00:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and I noticed from just traveling around the country.

[00:15:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, there's places they struggle with these issues for 50, 60 years

[00:15:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're still trying to, you know, craft that unified vision.

[00:15:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And man, the folks in Cherry Hill, they're just they're just doing it every day, man.

[00:15:23] [SPEAKER_02]: They're just doing it every day.

[00:15:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm so I'm so proud to have been afforded the opportunity

[00:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: to be part of what it was helping to get it where it is today.

[00:15:35] [SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, I just want to I just want to hazmat

[00:15:39] [SPEAKER_00]: tech with three Cherry Hill guys and their top notch dudes.

[00:15:43] [SPEAKER_00]: They were they were on they were on everything.

[00:15:46] [SPEAKER_00]: They were recently hired to and you could tell that they are

[00:15:51] [SPEAKER_00]: on the ball and they were they were good dudes.

[00:15:55] [SPEAKER_00]: And they were telling me they would I think they're up to like 80 something

[00:16:00] [SPEAKER_00]: personnel now for the department. Oh, yeah. Yeah, probably.

[00:16:05] [SPEAKER_00]: That's that's really that's amazing.

[00:16:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when I was there, I mean, we got up to like 120.

[00:16:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we lost a bunch through attrition and you know,

[00:16:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, when you had a real bad economic downturn in Jersey,

[00:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: they lost a bunch of positions and a lot of positions.

[00:16:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And you're just trying to rebuild that now.

[00:16:26] [SPEAKER_02]: So they're on their way back up when I was there, we had six firehouses.

[00:16:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We had five assigned to every house and I had a driver.

[00:16:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, you can figure that out.

[00:16:38] [SPEAKER_02]: That's what 30 we have 32 on a shift and we had free shifts.

[00:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's 96 plus training

[00:16:48] [SPEAKER_02]: plus admin plus fire marshals office, plus all those numbers.

[00:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we had a we had a good size staff and we lost

[00:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: a bunch of that, you know, through economic downturn.

[00:17:00] [SPEAKER_02]: So they're on their way building back up.

[00:17:03] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, they're they're sharp, man.

[00:17:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they're they're bringing a lot of good folks on.

[00:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: They got a lot of great officers on.

[00:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It's really kind of funny.

[00:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So the guys up in headquarters right now at Fire Chief

[00:17:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and the assistant chiefs, they were all in my recruit class that I ran.

[00:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, so so I go back here.

[00:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, I'll call them up every once in a while, man.

[00:17:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And they'll remind me about that, you know, and it just they just

[00:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I used to turn it on them, you know, now they turn it on me.

[00:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: It's OK, pops.

[00:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we will put a walker in a locker for you just next time

[00:17:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you visit, it's like, man, I'm OK.

[00:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's it's just a great place.

[00:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Man, it really is. I can't I can't say enough about.

[00:17:51] [SPEAKER_03]: You always see their guys out at different conferences, too, not just in Jersey.

[00:17:55] [SPEAKER_03]: You go to Pensacola at all.

[00:17:58] [SPEAKER_03]: You go to any Frederick's Training days anywhere.

[00:18:01] [SPEAKER_03]: Those guys are there special ops engine.

[00:18:04] [SPEAKER_03]: You name it.

[00:18:05] [SPEAKER_03]: They're really, really sharp guys.

[00:18:07] [SPEAKER_03]: They invest in their people.

[00:18:09] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a model agency right there.

[00:18:11] [SPEAKER_02]: From from day one, we always put

[00:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, we put an emphasis on a bunch of stuff.

[00:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we put an emphasis on physical fitness.

[00:18:21] [SPEAKER_02]: We put an emphasis on training and we put an emphasis

[00:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: on operational readiness and execution.

[00:18:29] [SPEAKER_02]: And we talked about that stuff all the time every day, all day long.

[00:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, 30 years down the road, you see it now.

[00:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we planted the seeds and we just kept on watering that seed.

[00:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And we just kept on nurturing that little plant.

[00:18:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And 30 years down the road now, you got a pretty strong tree.

[00:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: And and, you know, what you just talked about,

[00:18:53] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, seeing these guys out there and all these different events or

[00:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever, it just ties back to the beginning.

[00:19:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not that those of us in the beginning were so good.

[00:19:03] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just that's how you build, you know, a legacy

[00:19:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and an organization, you know, you define those things that are so important

[00:19:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and you just invest in it.

[00:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, before you know it, it just draws those type of people

[00:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that want to be part of something like that.

[00:19:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And for me, you know, a physically fit, trained,

[00:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: competent, operationally proficient firefighter.

[00:19:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's I mean, do we want anything other than that

[00:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: on our fire engines?

[00:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I just don't see it any other way.

[00:19:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what we talked about.

[00:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, and it does my heart good to hear guys like you say that

[00:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: because it tells me that that mindset that we worked so hard

[00:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: on 30 years ago is still alive and well today.

[00:19:56] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely. The guys I know there.

[00:19:59] [SPEAKER_03]: Out there, excellent guys, whether it was, you know, Bobby McDermott just retired.

[00:20:04] [SPEAKER_03]: But you want to talk about a guy that sets the bar pretty high.

[00:20:06] [SPEAKER_03]: And then you got Jimmy Keegan and Ferguson as a whole, the HALC brothers.

[00:20:13] [SPEAKER_03]: What great forward thinking guys that always want to do better

[00:20:17] [SPEAKER_03]: and leave it better than they had it when they got there.

[00:20:19] [SPEAKER_03]: It's a testament to your organization, how you guys set it up.

[00:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And all those names ring a bell, man.

[00:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Bob McDermott worked for me when when he was a fireman.

[00:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, and I was a battalion chief, Jason and Zach Halk.

[00:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I've worked with both of those guys for years.

[00:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, all those names ring a bell.

[00:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, I think they're they're just continuing to path forward, man.

[00:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: It's, you know, as much when you look at it now,

[00:20:46] [SPEAKER_02]: when I think about when I when you look at it now and where they are,

[00:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: where they going to be like 30 years from now,

[00:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: where now they got 60 years of that history and just,

[00:20:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, constantly just drilling down on those core values that we mentioned.

[00:21:04] [SPEAKER_02]: That's right. And it's phenomenal.

[00:21:07] [SPEAKER_00]: If those values have made it, if those values have made it 30 years now,

[00:21:11] [SPEAKER_00]: they are 100 percent going to make it 60 years. Absolutely.

[00:21:15] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think the message is it just goes because look,

[00:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, and I say this all the time,

[00:21:23] [SPEAKER_02]: the only reason why I'm a chief is because the smart guys

[00:21:26] [SPEAKER_02]: didn't show up on test day.

[00:21:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They looked around the room and they said, I give it to the tall guy with the

[00:21:29] [SPEAKER_02]: mustache and let's just hope he doesn't break anything.

[00:21:32] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how I made cheap.

[00:21:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You know what you're, you know, what you're looking at in Cherry Hill,

[00:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: what we're talking about now, it just goes to show that if you're

[00:21:41] [SPEAKER_02]: willing to do the work and invest in the people,

[00:21:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you can make it happen, man.

[00:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have, you know, you don't have to have the goose

[00:21:51] [SPEAKER_02]: that lays the golden egg.

[00:21:52] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't have to have all this other type of stuff.

[00:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we didn't have good facilities.

[00:21:58] [SPEAKER_02]: We didn't have good apparatus.

[00:21:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we had we had some political issues going on.

[00:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we had, you know, we had some politicians coming after us

[00:22:07] [SPEAKER_02]: because they wanted to fold us into their branch of government

[00:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: so they could get, you know, our tax base.

[00:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we had, you know, this thing, that thing.

[00:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And we just said, no, man, you know, we're going to stand here.

[00:22:19] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to do the right thing.

[00:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to work real hard and hard work always works.

[00:22:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think this, you know, the moral of the Cherry Hill story is,

[00:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: is if you have a heart and you have desire

[00:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: and you willing to do the work, you can make it happen.

[00:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: You can come in with a million excuses or you can roll up your sleeves

[00:22:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and you can go get the work done.

[00:22:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And I tell people, your choice, man.

[00:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, there's an old saying, man, you can have excuses or results,

[00:22:49] [SPEAKER_02]: but you can't have both. Pick one. Which one do you want?

[00:22:54] [SPEAKER_04]: Chief, I like how you mentioned physically fit.

[00:22:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Even 30 years ago, that was, that was something that you wanted

[00:23:02] [SPEAKER_04]: you had to drive for is having physically fit guys.

[00:23:05] [SPEAKER_04]: And in today's fire service, I know it's you get some guys

[00:23:09] [SPEAKER_04]: that are all about physical fitness and being prepared for the job.

[00:23:12] [SPEAKER_04]: And then you get some that aren't.

[00:23:13] [SPEAKER_04]: So I really liked how you mentioned that even 30 years ago,

[00:23:15] [SPEAKER_04]: we were striving to be physically fit and be good firemen, you know, able to do the job.

[00:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So when we started the Academy, I mean, I told the chief

[00:23:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because because we had a bunch of conversations about doing an Academy.

[00:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, are we going to do one? Can we do one?

[00:23:30] [SPEAKER_02]: We're small, we're, you know, all these other types of things.

[00:23:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I was I was a battalion chief at the time.

[00:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, listen, I'll tell you what,

[00:23:38] [SPEAKER_02]: at the rate that we're going to have to grow where we are now,

[00:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: what we have on the table and how we're going to have to grow

[00:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: if we don't do an Academy, if we don't do one,

[00:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: we're just going to throw bodies into a firehouse.

[00:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And there's no telling what's going to happen.

[00:23:57] [SPEAKER_02]: The only way we can really set the tone for the future

[00:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is to run our own Academy regardless, you know, and we hired all certified

[00:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: personnel, but, you know, we want to bring them in

[00:24:10] [SPEAKER_02]: to our place and we want to spend a couple of weeks with them

[00:24:14] [SPEAKER_02]: really drilling down on what it means to be a Cherry Hill fireman.

[00:24:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And they looked at me and said, that's a great idea.

[00:24:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So you're going to do it?

[00:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking around like, well,

[00:24:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I go, yeah, I'll do it.

[00:24:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'll do it if you let me do it my way because, you know,

[00:24:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and, you know, I'd been in the Army for years.

[00:24:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, I had a good feel.

[00:24:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'm not, you know, I'm not just drill sardin.

[00:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: It yells at guys.

[00:24:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I understand how to, I understand

[00:24:47] [SPEAKER_02]: how to move people to that end state where we want to get them.

[00:24:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, well, if you want, I'll do it, but you got to let me do it my way.

[00:24:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And they said, OK, so we did PT every morning and we ran every morning.

[00:25:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we did pull ups every morning.

[00:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: We did all that stuff, man.

[00:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: And I did PT with him every day.

[00:25:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It was just because I'm, you know, I'm looking at the I'm looking at the chiefs.

[00:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I go, if we don't, if we don't harp on fitness from day one,

[00:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: we're not going to be able to fix it five years down the road.

[00:25:19] [SPEAKER_02]: When we realize we got a segment of the organization

[00:25:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that's really lacking in this particular component.

[00:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we got a chance to fix it right now.

[00:25:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, some of the some of the folks that, you know,

[00:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: we're part of that initial merge.

[00:25:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it is what it is.

[00:25:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, some of them were into it.

[00:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Some of them weren't, you know, we just had to kind of live with that.

[00:25:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they eventually phased out because they retired.

[00:25:49] [SPEAKER_02]: They moved on.

[00:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: But everybody we replaced them with and every position

[00:25:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that we expanded the department by, they came through the academy.

[00:26:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know what? The academy's the academy, guys, girls.

[00:26:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We ain't lying.

[00:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not hiding anything from you.

[00:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it was in all the literature that we sent them.

[00:26:11] [SPEAKER_02]: It was in the interviews when we talked to them.

[00:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, excuse me.

[00:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Right.

[00:26:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, now, now a little win, a little win from down these.

[00:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, we told them, we told them that's what it was going to be.

[00:26:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, they came through the door and it's, you know,

[00:26:31] [SPEAKER_02]: this is our expectation.

[00:26:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And we just we just stayed with it.

[00:26:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And they've done some pretty, pretty neat stuff too.

[00:26:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Over the course of time, I mean, they were doing stuff where we had

[00:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the trainers for the Philadelphia Flyers who lived in town

[00:26:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and he got involved with them for a while.

[00:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: And they were helping me.

[00:26:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, he was doing some stuff.

[00:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and then they had some incentive programs.

[00:26:55] [SPEAKER_02]: They're always doing something.

[00:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they got guys, you know, we were we were doing.

[00:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We were running a lot.

[00:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, when I was younger, I used to run a real lot.

[00:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: So we had a whole bunch of us.

[00:27:08] [SPEAKER_02]: We used to go to races, man.

[00:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We had the running squad.

[00:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: We got our own little logo.

[00:27:12] [SPEAKER_02]: We made shirts.

[00:27:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They do the climb for air every year over in Philadelphia.

[00:27:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I see there's all types of things going on.

[00:27:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And they do they run over to Ben Franklin Bridge,

[00:27:24] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, like the last day in the academy.

[00:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: They, you know, they carpool over to Ben Franklin Bridge

[00:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and they run over to Bridge to Philadelphia and they come back.

[00:27:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we do all types of things, man.

[00:27:34] [SPEAKER_02]: There's always pull up bars out behind the firehouse.

[00:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's just it's just part of who we are.

[00:27:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And we don't take it for granted.

[00:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the way it is.

[00:27:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're going to be part of this, if you're going to be part of this team,

[00:27:50] [SPEAKER_02]: this is being part of the team.

[00:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So just go ahead and do it.

[00:27:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and when the bosses are out there doing it with you,

[00:27:57] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like, OK, you want to bitch about it?

[00:27:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the bosses are out here.

[00:28:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'll tell you what.

[00:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You want to complain about this whole thing?

[00:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Everybody stop going over there and talk to the chief.

[00:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Tell tell the chief, OK, now you're here for like two weeks.

[00:28:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Go you go tell the chief why we shouldn't be doing this.

[00:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'll just I'll just fold my hands and I'll just watch this show.

[00:28:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Because I hope you got a big bag and put all your stuff in

[00:28:21] [SPEAKER_02]: because you're not going to be here for more than 20 minutes.

[00:28:23] [SPEAKER_02]: That's and we never really had to say that

[00:28:25] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's just the way it was.

[00:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: And we were fortunate.

[00:28:31] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how we started.

[00:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's just it's just state.

[00:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, strong culture.

[00:28:36] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I'm sure I'm sure a majority of the people

[00:28:39] [SPEAKER_00]: that were applying for the position already knew that

[00:28:43] [SPEAKER_00]: they could tell just just by a little bit of research they can tell.

[00:28:47] [SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sure you didn't have many that were

[00:28:51] [SPEAKER_00]: giving issues for that aspect.

[00:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I think I ran I ran the first

[00:28:59] [SPEAKER_02]: four recruit classes.

[00:29:01] [SPEAKER_02]: We did a class one through four.

[00:29:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And in the four classes, I had two that just they just said,

[00:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: now this isn't for me.

[00:29:09] [SPEAKER_02]: So I got you know, that doesn't make doesn't mean you're a bad person.

[00:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't mean that you're not a good firefighter.

[00:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: It just means that, you know, we just happen not to be a good fit for you.

[00:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: But we have decided on what we want to be.

[00:29:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And we're not going to change that just because you showed up.

[00:29:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, this is who we are.

[00:29:29] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you can, you know, get with our program and stay here

[00:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and have a great career in a great organization

[00:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and do some great things or decide this isn't for you.

[00:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: You can, you know, go somewhere else.

[00:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, it's no harm no foul.

[00:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Not, you know, there's not good bad, whatever.

[00:29:46] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just, you know, it's not a good fit

[00:29:49] [SPEAKER_02]: because all the people and this is one of the things about this whole recruit,

[00:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, Academy thing that, you know, I'm so passionate about

[00:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: when you go out to the firehouse, all the people you're going to work with

[00:30:05] [SPEAKER_02]: have been through the exact same thing that you have.

[00:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: They they know the drills, you know, they know what the ant farm is like.

[00:30:14] [SPEAKER_02]: They know what the 24 hour thing is like.

[00:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: They that they know what all those evolutions are.

[00:30:21] [SPEAKER_02]: All those drills, all those experiences are

[00:30:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because they've been through it too.

[00:30:26] [SPEAKER_02]: And if that's if that doesn't resonate with you,

[00:30:30] [SPEAKER_02]: then you're probably just not a good fit for us.

[00:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So I like to say to two people in the four classes

[00:30:36] [SPEAKER_02]: are wearing two people said this isn't for me.

[00:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: That's like, all right, no, no problem.

[00:30:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You'll just turn all your stuff in.

[00:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Make sure we got the right address.

[00:30:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to mail your last paycheck and I wish you the best of luck

[00:30:48] [SPEAKER_02]: in your future endeavors.

[00:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's not like I don't care.

[00:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just I had to care about what was going to graduate from the Academy.

[00:30:59] [SPEAKER_02]: And if I let people if I say, well, you know, that's not too important.

[00:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't worry about it.

[00:31:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, when they go out to the firehouse, everybody in firehouse

[00:31:08] [SPEAKER_02]: has the expectation that this new class

[00:31:12] [SPEAKER_02]: has dead in fruit of process that they did.

[00:31:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It's just I couldn't turn my back on that because the people in firehouses,

[00:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: the officers, the firefighters, the battalions,

[00:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: they were trusting me to make sure that we ran the program

[00:31:28] [SPEAKER_02]: that we said we were going to run.

[00:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's what we did.

[00:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: That's incredible.

[00:31:34] [SPEAKER_04]: You set those you set those standards and you didn't get in

[00:31:37] [SPEAKER_04]: detail away from this.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_04]: That's awesome. Yeah.

[00:31:39] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. So as if you weren't busy enough in that time frame,

[00:31:44] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I also heard that you were one of the founding members of your Jersey

[00:31:47] [SPEAKER_03]: Task Force One to. Yeah.

[00:31:51] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah. How'd you get into that?

[00:31:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I've always been like a rescue guy.

[00:31:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I've always been interested in rescue.

[00:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: So when the state started, you know, Task Force One,

[00:32:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, we knew about it and we just, you know, we went to the chief

[00:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and said, hey, man, you know, we want to try to get in on this, man.

[00:32:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We want to get in on the ground floor.

[00:32:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, at the time, you know, we had Roger Allshafer.

[00:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: So he had a good feel for that.

[00:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: He goes, yeah, absolutely.

[00:32:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, why?

[00:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: Why would we want to let that opportunity pass us by?

[00:32:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So he said, yeah, you don't go out, fill out the applications, man.

[00:32:26] [SPEAKER_02]: We'll sponsor you.

[00:32:28] [SPEAKER_02]: So there's four of us, four of us got into it.

[00:32:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And yeah, now that you mentioned it, you know, with everything

[00:32:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I had going on, plus I was doing that, it's like, man, you know.

[00:32:38] [SPEAKER_03]: So that's quite the commitment at that time.

[00:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, my wife would give the kids, you know, my picture and say, hey,

[00:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: if you see this guy walking down the hallway, it's not a stranger.

[00:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, people all don't like yourself in the room.

[00:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: All night one morning, actually.

[00:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But yeah, he's OK. We like.

[00:32:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Man, she held the house together, man.

[00:32:59] [SPEAKER_02]: She did so much to keep the family, you know, centered right

[00:33:02] [SPEAKER_02]: where we need to be that allowed me to do all this, you know,

[00:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: all that I was doing because I didn't, you know, like I said,

[00:33:10] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, when the recruit schools were in, man, I was working my shift

[00:33:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was staying over on those days, you know, Task Force one.

[00:33:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in the Army Reserve, so I got activated.

[00:33:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I went I went away to the first Gulf where I was gone for like four or five months

[00:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: then I was, you know, gone for, you know, you started deployment.

[00:33:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, yeah, she really held, man, you know, having a good wife

[00:33:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and having that solid partner, you know, makes all the difference in the world.

[00:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah.

[00:33:42] [SPEAKER_03]: There's a good man. There's a better one behind them.

[00:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Oh, yeah, man. Yeah, I mean, absolutely, man.

[00:33:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, I'm no living proof to that, man. Absolutely.

[00:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: But let's go.

[00:33:54] [SPEAKER_02]: She was just just opportunities.

[00:33:57] [SPEAKER_04]: Chief of your career.

[00:33:58] [SPEAKER_04]: Who would you say some of your best mentors were the people who shaped you

[00:34:06] [SPEAKER_04]: into the fireman and the fire officer? You were hard to that.

[00:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think, you know, I, you know, I give a lot of credit to Roger

[00:34:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Allshafer. I mentioned him, you know, several times.

[00:34:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Bob Giorgio ended up, you know, Bob Giorgio.

[00:34:22] [SPEAKER_02]: When I went to Cherry Hill, I was a captain.

[00:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: Bob Giorgio was firefighter.

[00:34:26] [SPEAKER_02]: He took captain's test.

[00:34:27] [SPEAKER_02]: He ended up passing me on the promotions and he ended up being

[00:34:32] [SPEAKER_02]: becoming our fire chief after Roger retired.

[00:34:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, Bob did so much to help me.

[00:34:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I always mentioned, you know, Bob Giorgio.

[00:34:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, the list is a mile long, man.

[00:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I just, I just got to thank all those guys that, you know,

[00:34:48] [SPEAKER_02]: worked with me, worked for me, you know, work, you know,

[00:34:52] [SPEAKER_02]: hand in glove, man.

[00:34:53] [SPEAKER_02]: The list is so long.

[00:34:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd love to spit out names, but every time I do,

[00:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: I leave like three guys off and I feel so bad about that.

[00:35:02] [SPEAKER_02]: But I'd say, you know, the Cherry Hill Fire Department, man,

[00:35:05] [SPEAKER_02]: the Cherry Hill Fire Department may have happened.

[00:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And then I went to Sunrise Beach, Missouri.

[00:35:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And that was another organization.

[00:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I was brought in because the board of directors felt

[00:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: like they needed to make some changes and they need to move

[00:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: in another direction.

[00:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: And man, I had some guys out there that would do anything for me.

[00:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, just I still talk to some of them, you know, Kenny Weeberg.

[00:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Kenny Weeberg came on in our first recruit Academy class

[00:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: in Sunrise Beach as a fireman.

[00:35:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, he said and he had owned a business.

[00:35:40] [SPEAKER_02]: He was kind of a strong little guy, man.

[00:35:42] [SPEAKER_02]: Me and him, but he'd had a couple of times.

[00:35:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And boy, I'll tell you what, man, I don't, you know,

[00:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: just like one day we both woke up and we said, man,

[00:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: we got to start working together and we did.

[00:35:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's the deputy chief out there now.

[00:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: He's doing some great work.

[00:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I had David Herdbees, Jack Hagrid, Kenny Stepson, Austin Morrill.

[00:36:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And he's a captain out there now.

[00:36:04] [SPEAKER_02]: A bunch of officers out there, a bunch of firefighters out there

[00:36:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that really did some good work.

[00:36:10] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I said I wasn't going to, you know, run off a list of names

[00:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and leave some Cherry Hill guys out.

[00:36:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just ran off a bunch of names.

[00:36:17] [SPEAKER_02]: And I know I left some of the Missouri guys out and I hate that.

[00:36:20] [SPEAKER_02]: But between those two organizations, you know,

[00:36:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what really kind of shaped me into the chief officer that I was.

[00:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:36:34] [SPEAKER_04]: Those organizations that it wasn't just one person.

[00:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. That's awesome.

[00:36:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I had some influence.

[00:36:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was a chief, you know, I had some influence, man.

[00:36:44] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, what I always tried to do is I always tried

[00:36:50] [SPEAKER_02]: to make sure that we were bringing the right people on.

[00:36:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we would look at people real hard.

[00:36:55] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we would talk to them.

[00:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We would ask questions.

[00:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: We do some, you know, we do some backgrounds.

[00:37:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we put them into that recruit school, which is a vetting process

[00:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to really see how they how they act and how they respond.

[00:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and based on everything, we would really identify people

[00:37:12] [SPEAKER_02]: that we thought were a good fit.

[00:37:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, most time, everyone's while we made a mistake,

[00:37:18] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, everyone's while we had to, you know, call somebody and say,

[00:37:21] [SPEAKER_02]: hey, listen, this really isn't working out.

[00:37:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But the vast majority of them vetted out to be what we thought

[00:37:29] [SPEAKER_02]: they were going to be and they and they worked out.

[00:37:33] [SPEAKER_02]: But we spent a lot of time.

[00:37:35] [SPEAKER_02]: We spent a lot of time and a lot of effort in it.

[00:37:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, as an example, when we had people come in

[00:37:42] [SPEAKER_02]: for an interview, you know, they'd come to headquarters.

[00:37:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So one of the guys would go out and go look at their car.

[00:37:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because if you got a, you know, if you got a dumpster

[00:37:52] [SPEAKER_02]: on four wheels with a broken windshield, your registration is expired

[00:37:56] [SPEAKER_02]: by a year and a half and your safety inspections expired.

[00:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: What do you think you're going to be?

[00:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, this person now all of a sudden, you know,

[00:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: going to become this stour rock star, tiller of the community.

[00:38:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So then we started looking at all those types of things.

[00:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And when we first started doing it, guys looked at me like,

[00:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: what are you crazy? I don't know. Think about that.

[00:38:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Just think about that.

[00:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And they go, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.

[00:38:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, we would do that, you know, we.

[00:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, in Missouri, we give them a P.T. test like day,

[00:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, day one, first thing in the morning, we give them a P.T.

[00:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: test. Well, they've got their warning letter already.

[00:38:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're going to be hired and these are our

[00:38:41] [SPEAKER_02]: standards first thing. We give them P.T. test and someone

[00:38:44] [SPEAKER_02]: would fail the P.T. test. It's like,

[00:38:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that's the way to set a good first impression, isn't it?

[00:38:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So and most most times when they fail the P.T.

[00:38:57] [SPEAKER_02]: test on day one, they don't make it to the end of probation.

[00:39:01] [SPEAKER_02]: They just don't know because that that's an indicator.

[00:39:05] [SPEAKER_02]: That's a window into, you know, I mean, OK, so the P.T.

[00:39:09] [SPEAKER_02]: test got to run a mile and a half and 13 minutes.

[00:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to do 25 push ups.

[00:39:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to do two pull ups and you got to do 40 sit ups.

[00:39:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So I mean, I'm not telling you to run the Iron Man Tritathlon.

[00:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, these are very, I mean, these are very

[00:39:30] [SPEAKER_02]: easily obtainable standards if you've been,

[00:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, doing P.T.

[00:39:36] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, we want people and it goes back to like you said,

[00:39:40] [SPEAKER_02]: we put a high emphasis on P.T.

[00:39:42] [SPEAKER_02]: We want people on our fire apparatus who are operationally

[00:39:47] [SPEAKER_02]: fit, which means they can get on fire ground and they can do

[00:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: some extremely difficult tasks in very challenging situations.

[00:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, when you hang, you've got this notice,

[00:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: you had this notice for four weeks and on day one,

[00:40:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you hang on a pull up board and you can't even bring your elbows

[00:40:07] [SPEAKER_02]: to, you know, you can't even do 90 degrees and you're just hanging

[00:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: on the pull up board with your feet spinning like a ride on a bicycle.

[00:40:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But OK, we'll see where we are six weeks from now.

[00:40:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And the folks that were like that, they ended up running the bell

[00:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and say, OK, well, an A can probably go down the road

[00:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and be successful in some other fire department.

[00:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But what we were doing in Missouri, I'm talking about what we were

[00:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: doing in Sunrise Beach, Missouri, we had a plan.

[00:40:38] [SPEAKER_02]: We had a vision.

[00:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: We were moving in a certain direction and we felt you had to be able

[00:40:44] [SPEAKER_02]: to do these things to help us move in that direction.

[00:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And man, if you're not, you're not.

[00:40:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Thanks for coming out.

[00:40:52] [SPEAKER_02]: But I don't know what to tell you.

[00:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: They'd hang on the bar and your feet would just like,

[00:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: really, you're not riding a bicycle, man.

[00:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Your feet move 100 miles an hour.

[00:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to put your chin over the point.

[00:41:03] [SPEAKER_02]: You get it's like, oh, right here, bro.

[00:41:05] [SPEAKER_02]: It's this, you know, you're just they're going up the imaginary stairs.

[00:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[00:41:12] [SPEAKER_02]: Two pull ups.

[00:41:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, for crying out loud, two pops.

[00:41:16] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I was in my fifties when I was the chief out there.

[00:41:19] [SPEAKER_02]: I could do two to pull ups.

[00:41:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I couldn't do more than that.

[00:41:22] [SPEAKER_02]: Many more than that.

[00:41:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I got a bum shoulder and some other, you know,

[00:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: nagging injuries, but shit, I could at least do two pops.

[00:41:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Come on.

[00:41:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, you're 21 years old.

[00:41:32] [SPEAKER_02]: OK, we'll see.

[00:41:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Because it's not and we were telling, you know, hey, listen,

[00:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: this is day one.

[00:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's not going to get any easier.

[00:41:43] [SPEAKER_02]: This is six weeks.

[00:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: It's going to get harder every day and you're struggling now.

[00:41:48] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, yeah.

[00:41:52] [SPEAKER_02]: If you got the willpower and the determination, you'll make it.

[00:41:55] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, if you're quitting on this,

[00:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: six weeks is going to be a long, long time.

[00:42:02] [SPEAKER_03]: And that's your quit here.

[00:42:03] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to see it.

[00:42:05] [SPEAKER_03]: So if you're quitting here,

[00:42:06] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't want to see what's going to happen in the fire.

[00:42:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you know, that's why we do P.T. wood.

[00:42:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's when, you know, when you're laying on your back

[00:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: at like quarter after seven in the morning

[00:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's 40 degrees out and you're doing flutter kicks,

[00:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, it's not about doing the flutter kit.

[00:42:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, it's really not about that.

[00:42:28] [SPEAKER_02]: It's about that the mindset and that drive and that determination,

[00:42:32] [SPEAKER_02]: how much you're willing to overcome to get to the goal.

[00:42:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why we did it.

[00:42:38] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I mean, you know, we ran, we ran four or five days a week.

[00:42:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's not, you know, certainly.

[00:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: The, you know, the fitness aspect was a big part of it.

[00:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But can you drive yourself five days a week for six weeks

[00:42:55] [SPEAKER_02]: to come out every morning and do P.T.

[00:42:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Every morning and run every morning and do all this other type of stuff?

[00:43:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if you can't, then, you know, what are you going to do?

[00:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when we're making that push

[00:43:08] [SPEAKER_02]: because there's a kid in that back bedroom

[00:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's a gnarly hallway.

[00:43:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Man, if you're rolling over and quitting on some flutter kicks

[00:43:17] [SPEAKER_02]: in the parking lot, man, what are you going to do in the hallway?

[00:43:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And we would tell people that. Absolutely.

[00:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we would tell people this is why we do P.T.

[00:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We're watching to see how you handle this situation

[00:43:32] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's an indicator on how you're going to handle the other things.

[00:43:37] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're struggling here, you're going to be struggling there.

[00:43:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And we saw people who would struggle and we would take them to the side.

[00:43:44] [SPEAKER_02]: We would talk to them and we lay everything out for them.

[00:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, some people, they got it, you know, and over the course of six,

[00:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: seven, you know, some of our academies, I think one academy,

[00:43:54] [SPEAKER_02]: we were able to we were actually able to push out the eight weeks,

[00:43:57] [SPEAKER_02]: which was a big deal. We had eight full weeks.

[00:44:00] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, over the course of eight weeks, if they've got the right mindset,

[00:44:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you can see things starting to click.

[00:44:07] [SPEAKER_02]: And we always give them a chance.

[00:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: We always give them a chance.

[00:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So we pick up on it right away and we pull them off to the side

[00:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and say, Hey, man, what's going on? See you struggling.

[00:44:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, and then we'd explain.

[00:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: We'd explain what the whole idea was.

[00:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, then you would see and say, OK, man, I got it, man,

[00:44:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to work a little bit harder tomorrow.

[00:44:30] [SPEAKER_02]: And they'd come in, they'd still struggle, but you could see

[00:44:33] [SPEAKER_02]: it was, you know, they weren't letting your mind get the best of them.

[00:44:36] [SPEAKER_02]: They're still struggling with the event, but they're pushing through.

[00:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, so.

[00:44:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And then as soon as you see that, man, you grab them,

[00:44:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you pull them over to the side, man, you put your arm around and say,

[00:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, man, good job.

[00:44:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And you walk away.

[00:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You give them that little win.

[00:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And when you give them that little win

[00:44:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and you recognize that win, they're going to come back

[00:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because they don't want another win.

[00:45:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then you'll pop positive energy just to get positive energy.

[00:45:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I love that. Yeah.

[00:45:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, that's awesome.

[00:45:08] [SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I think mindset can give anybody the strength.

[00:45:14] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's all it's all in your mind, no matter how strong you are.

[00:45:19] [SPEAKER_00]: Like I was thinking about those two, those two pull-ups,

[00:45:22] [SPEAKER_00]: like even the most out of shape, unfit person,

[00:45:27] [SPEAKER_00]: if they have the right mindset, they could do those two pull-ups.

[00:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I wouldn't allow them to jump up on the bar, man.

[00:45:35] [SPEAKER_02]: So you only really haven't do one.

[00:45:37] [SPEAKER_03]: It's going to work.

[00:45:38] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, because that person, you used that momentum now.

[00:45:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Now at the end of the academy, they were doing five pull-ups

[00:45:48] [SPEAKER_02]: because, you know, I have something else that we did.

[00:45:51] [SPEAKER_02]: We had pull-up bars right there at the door to the classroom.

[00:45:55] [SPEAKER_02]: So we did ins and outs every week.

[00:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, like every time you went in, you had to jump on the bar

[00:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and do two or three pull-ups.

[00:46:02] [SPEAKER_02]: And every time you went out, you had to do like 10 push-ups.

[00:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And then the next week we'd have them do like two command pull-ups.

[00:46:10] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, and going out, they'd have to do like 10 Chinese pull-ups or so.

[00:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: Push-ups. I mean, we really varied it out.

[00:46:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But at the end of six weeks, man, you know, if they were willing to stay with the program

[00:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and they were willing to do the work at the end of six weeks, man,

[00:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: they weren't going to shake, you know, and they were ready.

[00:46:31] [SPEAKER_02]: They were ready to get out, you know, they were ready to get out

[00:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: into firehouses and get after.

[00:46:37] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in my academy, the PT, so that there wasn't like a base number

[00:46:44] [SPEAKER_00]: that they had that everybody had to hit.

[00:46:47] [SPEAKER_00]: It was just that you had to show improvement throughout the academy.

[00:46:50] [SPEAKER_00]: It was 13 weeks.

[00:46:51] [SPEAKER_00]: Yeah. And almost everybody in the academy showed improvement.

[00:46:55] [SPEAKER_00]: As long as you have your mindset in the right place and you stick with it,

[00:46:58] [SPEAKER_00]: you're going to show improvement.

[00:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah. We just, you know, we just want to have a number.

[00:47:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We want to be able to put our finger on the number and say, this is, you know,

[00:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: this is what you had to do.

[00:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, I see a lot of merit in the other ways too.

[00:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And I say this all the time on my social media sites, man, mine isn't the only way.

[00:47:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not even going to say it's the best way.

[00:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: It's a way that I've found works.

[00:47:25] [SPEAKER_02]: But there's, you know, there's five or six other ways out there that probably work

[00:47:30] [SPEAKER_02]: just as well as mine does.

[00:47:33] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the only reason why I put, the only reason why I throw a lot of stuff out there

[00:47:38] [SPEAKER_02]: on my social media site is to give people away.

[00:47:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And they can look at it and say, okay, that makes sense.

[00:47:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, and I get these big arguments.

[00:47:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I don't allow myself getting big arguments with social media.

[00:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But anytime I put something out there.

[00:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I always get, you know, two or three people that, you know, really just blast me.

[00:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, all right, whatever.

[00:48:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I just read comments and I chuckle.

[00:48:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, if they keep on coming back and they keep on poking, trying to get a response,

[00:48:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I just don't need to comment and block them.

[00:48:15] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, go, go, go argue with someone else.

[00:48:20] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, exactly.

[00:48:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I don't have time for that.

[00:48:22] [SPEAKER_00]: I ignore almost all of them.

[00:48:26] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't even engage.

[00:48:28] [SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.

[00:48:30] [SPEAKER_00]: There's no space in my head to even engage on that.

[00:48:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:48:34] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, where I really learned this one, where I really learned that lesson is

[00:48:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I put something up about portable radios and radio straps and I put a link to the Fairfax study.

[00:48:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, to talk about, you know, keep your radio underneath your code, expose the antennas,

[00:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, because the code blocks somebody off.

[00:48:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I put all that on there but I had a link right through the study.

[00:49:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So this guy gets on there and he just rips me left, right up down, whatever.

[00:49:07] [SPEAKER_02]: Like I'm an absolute moron.

[00:49:10] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, all right, whatever.

[00:49:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So I answered a couple of his points.

[00:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: All his points didn't make any sense.

[00:49:16] [SPEAKER_02]: So, and I ended with make sure you read the study that I've linked in the post so you can understand my perspective.

[00:49:29] [SPEAKER_02]: So like next day I go look and he's got even more comments up there.

[00:49:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It's obvious he didn't read the book.

[00:49:34] [SPEAKER_02]: It's obvious he didn't read the study.

[00:49:36] [SPEAKER_02]: So let me just check this guy out.

[00:49:38] [SPEAKER_02]: So I click on his, I click on his, you know, his name or whatever it takes me back to his Facebook page.

[00:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: And on his Facebook page, the banner says, I'm a very intelligent person.

[00:49:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't give a fuck what anybody else thinks.

[00:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[00:49:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Easy enough.

[00:49:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Delete.

[00:49:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Here's your sign.

[00:49:59] [SPEAKER_02]: There you go.

[00:50:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, hey, I try not to use a lot of profanity when I'm on podcasts, but that's a quote, man.

[00:50:07] [SPEAKER_02]: That is an absolute quote.

[00:50:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, okay, whatever.

[00:50:12] [SPEAKER_03]: Moving on.

[00:50:13] [SPEAKER_03]: I can promise you don't, doesn't bother us.

[00:50:16] [SPEAKER_02]: No.

[00:50:18] [SPEAKER_02]: Not at all.

[00:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: As much time as you guys spent in the firehouse.

[00:50:22] [SPEAKER_02]: No, there's no way it does.

[00:50:24] [SPEAKER_02]: But anyhow.

[00:50:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:27] [SPEAKER_03]: We try to tone it back just a little bit.

[00:50:29] [SPEAKER_03]: Being from New Jersey is a little challenging at times.

[00:50:33] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I believe you raising kids, you know, spending all that time in firehouse and then coming home

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and being dead.

[00:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, uh-oh God, watch out.

[00:50:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Not in firehouse.

[00:50:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to be dead today.

[00:50:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:50:51] [SPEAKER_04]: Chief.

[00:50:53] [SPEAKER_04]: Oh, go ahead.

[00:50:55] [SPEAKER_04]: No, you got.

[00:50:56] [SPEAKER_04]: No, no.

[00:50:59] [SPEAKER_04]: Chief, you tell us what your first fire.

[00:51:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I got a little think about this.

[00:51:09] [SPEAKER_02]: It was back in spring like, man, when I was a volunteer, you know, we caught, we caught

[00:51:14] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of fire back there because it was right outside of Fort Bragg.

[00:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, they all kind of run together at this point.

[00:51:22] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, there was some, there was some pretty nasty duplex fires we went to.

[00:51:27] [SPEAKER_02]: So I remember a couple of them.

[00:51:29] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, well, what did anybody do?

[00:51:31] [SPEAKER_02]: We were going to travel fires all the time.

[00:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, I went to a bunch of them, but then, you know, some of the fires, you know,

[00:51:39] [SPEAKER_02]: really start remembering is when I went, you know, full-time in city of Durham.

[00:51:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, once again, we had, you know, like the, you know, kind of tough side

[00:51:47] [SPEAKER_02]: of town and we were going to fires there all the time.

[00:51:50] [SPEAKER_02]: A lot of residential fires.

[00:51:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Uh, we went to a, we went to an apartment fire one time.

[00:51:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And I remember this one.

[00:51:58] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a bad lightning storm and the apartment building caught on fire.

[00:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: And fire was running in the cabin in the attic.

[00:52:08] [SPEAKER_02]: So I was on rescue, me and the other guy on rescue.

[00:52:11] [SPEAKER_02]: So we see what's going on and we know what's happening.

[00:52:14] [SPEAKER_02]: So we get about two or three apartments down.

[00:52:17] [SPEAKER_02]: We force our way in and we get into this apartment.

[00:52:20] [SPEAKER_02]: It was vacant.

[00:52:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So we're in there with a line.

[00:52:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm pretty deep in the apartment.

[00:52:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to pull the ceiling.

[00:52:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Then we're going to try to cut the fire off.

[00:52:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I didn't realize is the fire had burned through the roof and they just

[00:52:32] [SPEAKER_02]: turned the aerial on.

[00:52:34] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was like right underneath of it.

[00:52:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, and everything went dark, man.

[00:52:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, they, I mean, it was one of those somethings with the twin horns

[00:52:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and they turned both of them on, man.

[00:52:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm looking up and then, you know, the next thing I know, I'm out on a curb.

[00:52:51] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, it's like what happened?

[00:52:54] [SPEAKER_02]: Was there an abillery?

[00:52:55] [SPEAKER_04]: Yeah.

[00:52:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I mean, it must have knocked me out.

[00:53:00] [SPEAKER_02]: It just blasted me because it burned through because we worked our way down

[00:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and it burned through.

[00:53:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We kind of looked at, we knew about where we wanted to get.

[00:53:09] [SPEAKER_02]: And man, they just fired that thing up.

[00:53:12] [SPEAKER_02]: It was like, I remember that fire.

[00:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: That was pretty nasty.

[00:53:19] [SPEAKER_02]: But then, you know, I promoted up, man.

[00:53:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I've been a chief for like 30 years.

[00:53:24] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, a lot of the fires that I can really remember.

[00:53:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember, you know, as being an incident commander.

[00:53:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So we had a bunch of nasty apartment fires in Cherry Hill.

[00:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember one fire.

[00:53:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I remember one fire we had in Cherry Hill and Bob Giorgio was the chief

[00:53:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and we got there and we transmitted the old hands right away.

[00:53:45] [SPEAKER_02]: We knew it was a working fire and he lived in town.

[00:53:48] [SPEAKER_02]: So he got there right about the time I got there.

[00:53:51] [SPEAKER_02]: So I kind of looked at it and said, I'll tell you what,

[00:53:54] [SPEAKER_02]: if you give me 10 minutes and two companies will put this thing out

[00:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because it was well involved on the one end of the building.

[00:54:01] [SPEAKER_02]: But I flashed back to some of these other apartment fires

[00:54:05] [SPEAKER_02]: where it gets in the attic and starts running.

[00:54:08] [SPEAKER_02]: And so he says, all right, I'll give you 24s and 52s.

[00:54:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So we got around the back, threw a ladder up,

[00:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: got up onto the second floor of another vacant apartment,

[00:54:16] [SPEAKER_02]: pulled some ceiling, we cut the fire off right there.

[00:54:20] [SPEAKER_02]: And it was just, I just remember that fire

[00:54:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because we had always gone through these fires and we kind of chased them.

[00:54:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And this one fire, you know, I was in the right position.

[00:54:31] [SPEAKER_02]: The chief was in the right position.

[00:54:33] [SPEAKER_02]: We just had all these, all these things line up.

[00:54:36] [SPEAKER_02]: And I just told him, I said, if you give me 10 minutes, that's all I need.

[00:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And if it doesn't work, you know, I'll come out and we'll do whatever.

[00:54:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes, you got 10 minutes and he gave me the two companies

[00:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and we got around to the back and we made a stop on it.

[00:54:52] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a good ball right there.

[00:54:54] [SPEAKER_03]: Give me 10 minutes and let's you go.

[00:54:56] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, give me 10 minutes.

[00:54:57] [SPEAKER_02]: But he and I had known each other for a long time

[00:55:01] [SPEAKER_02]: and he knew he could trust me and I knew that I could trust him.

[00:55:05] [SPEAKER_02]: And he knew when I said, you know, give me 10 minutes.

[00:55:08] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we just had that relationship.

[00:55:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, give me 10 minutes.

[00:55:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And if he called me and said 10 minutes is up,

[00:55:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sorry we were to come out.

[00:55:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a battalion chief one for me one time when I was a chief

[00:55:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and I told him to come out because I'm standing in front of your

[00:55:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and that air in and I'm watching the fires actually starting

[00:55:27] [SPEAKER_02]: to get behind them and they don't realize it.

[00:55:31] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, I'm starting to get scared.

[00:55:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's like this is not going to be good.

[00:55:35] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, the fire is going to cut them off.

[00:55:37] [SPEAKER_02]: So I called this battalion chief.

[00:55:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, man back the line out and he started arguing with me.

[00:55:42] [SPEAKER_02]: He says, ah, we got it.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_02]: We got it.

[00:55:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Just give me a minute.

[00:55:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, no, back the line out now.

[00:55:46] [SPEAKER_02]: And he goes, we'll be out in just a minute.

[00:55:48] [SPEAKER_02]: We got this.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: We got this.

[00:55:49] [SPEAKER_02]: And I told him on radio, see if you don't come out in five

[00:55:52] [SPEAKER_02]: seconds, I'm going to pull the line out.

[00:55:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And he said, oh, all right.

[00:55:56] [SPEAKER_02]: And I went the next day and I talked to him about that.

[00:55:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I said, listen, if I give him a word on fire ground,

[00:56:03] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no, there's no give me, you know,

[00:56:06] [SPEAKER_02]: if I'm giving you an order on a fire ground,

[00:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: it's because I see something that you don't.

[00:56:12] [SPEAKER_02]: And you've just got to trust me as being the guy who's

[00:56:16] [SPEAKER_02]: ultimately responsible for everything that happens.

[00:56:19] [SPEAKER_02]: If I tell you to come out, come out.

[00:56:21] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's what I expect, you know,

[00:56:24] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what I expect of my chiefs who are,

[00:56:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, my tactical supervisors because that's

[00:56:30] [SPEAKER_02]: what I learned from Cherry Hill.

[00:56:32] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's the way we were.

[00:56:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And give me 10 minutes.

[00:56:35] [SPEAKER_02]: Okay, you got 10 minutes, but at 10 minutes and a

[00:56:38] [SPEAKER_02]: second, if you're not getting it, you're coming out.

[00:56:41] [SPEAKER_02]: It's like, okay.

[00:56:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So for those of us in, you know, fire, you know,

[00:56:45] [SPEAKER_02]: fire ground stories that may, you know, may resonate.

[00:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[00:56:51] [SPEAKER_03]: I still do not today.

[00:56:53] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[00:56:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And then, you know, we had another fire.

[00:56:55] [SPEAKER_02]: We had a fire on those Sage Beach.

[00:56:57] [SPEAKER_02]: We had a free story condo that, you know,

[00:56:59] [SPEAKER_02]: ended up going and we ended up,

[00:57:02] [SPEAKER_02]: we had four kids on the third floor.

[00:57:05] [SPEAKER_02]: We had to do VES with a 35 foot extension ladder into

[00:57:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the third floor to find those kids.

[00:57:11] [SPEAKER_02]: And they all perished.

[00:57:13] [SPEAKER_02]: They, you know, I think they all died from smoke inhalation.

[00:57:16] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, my message is, you know,

[00:57:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that fire is coming, you know.

[00:57:21] [SPEAKER_02]: So when I talk about, you know,

[00:57:23] [SPEAKER_02]: the need to prepare, you know,

[00:57:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the need to be physically fit and need to train

[00:57:27] [SPEAKER_02]: every day, need to drive around,

[00:57:29] [SPEAKER_02]: be familiar with your first-do local,

[00:57:32] [SPEAKER_02]: your second-do local.

[00:57:34] [SPEAKER_02]: How do I get up there, you know,

[00:57:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, you know, what are the walkouts like,

[00:57:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, what size of a ladder do I need to go to

[00:57:42] [SPEAKER_02]: what window man?

[00:57:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when that fire comes,

[00:57:45] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't have 20 minutes to game plan.

[00:57:48] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when that fire comes, it's second.

[00:57:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And man, you've got to be ready to go.

[00:57:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And that fire really took,

[00:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that fire took a lot of people back

[00:57:59] [SPEAKER_02]: because we went to a lot of fires,

[00:58:02] [SPEAKER_02]: but we didn't go to a three-story apartment building

[00:58:04] [SPEAKER_02]: that had four kids trapped on the third floor.

[00:58:07] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we just did not do that all that often

[00:58:11] [SPEAKER_02]: until the day that we had to do it.

[00:58:14] [SPEAKER_02]: And it happens.

[00:58:15] [SPEAKER_02]: It happens in anybody's community, man.

[00:58:18] [SPEAKER_02]: So that's one of the things that I still talk about now

[00:58:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in some of my presentations

[00:58:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and some of the classes that I do, man,

[00:58:25] [SPEAKER_02]: just that absolute need for you to be, you know, piled in, man.

[00:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: Drive around, you know, go find the building.

[00:58:33] [SPEAKER_02]: And I say this to new officers,

[00:58:35] [SPEAKER_02]: go find the building that scares you the most

[00:58:37] [SPEAKER_02]: because everybody's got a building in their first due

[00:58:41] [SPEAKER_02]: that if it catches on fire,

[00:58:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to be on vacation at that.

[00:58:46] [SPEAKER_02]: We all do, you know, they're there in every local man.

[00:58:49] [SPEAKER_02]: So you go find that building

[00:58:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and then start asking yourself,

[00:58:52] [SPEAKER_02]: well, what scares me about this building?

[00:58:54] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, is it the way out? Is construction?

[00:58:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it the contents?

[00:58:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it the size of the building?

[00:59:01] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm not sure, you know, how we're going to get the lines in there.

[00:59:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it forced voluntary issues?

[00:59:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Is it great issues?

[00:59:08] [SPEAKER_02]: What are those things that are scaring you about that building

[00:59:12] [SPEAKER_02]: because they're not going to go away?

[00:59:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if it troubles you,

[00:59:18] [SPEAKER_02]: if it scares you, it scares you for a reason

[00:59:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and those problems aren't going to go away.

[00:59:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So what can you do with the kitchen table

[00:59:26] [SPEAKER_02]: to kind of hammer that out?

[00:59:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Say, hey man, if this building comes in,

[00:59:31] [SPEAKER_02]: if we get a run here and it's in the A B corner

[00:59:34] [SPEAKER_02]: or it's in the, you know, the C D corner, whatever,

[00:59:37] [SPEAKER_02]: this is our play, man.

[00:59:39] [SPEAKER_02]: This is the door that we're going to look to go through.

[00:59:42] [SPEAKER_02]: This is how long the stretch is.

[00:59:44] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, we're going to have to go two and a half.

[00:59:46] [SPEAKER_02]: We're going to have to do a leader line, whatever.

[00:59:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, whatever, but just start hammering those things out

[00:59:52] [SPEAKER_02]: because that building that scares you

[00:59:55] [SPEAKER_02]: isn't going to catch on fire one day.

[00:59:57] [SPEAKER_02]: You may be off, it may happen after you retire

[01:00:01] [SPEAKER_02]: or it may be your next day at work

[01:00:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because everybody who is on that fire

[01:00:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm talking about it at the Compass Point condos,

[01:00:11] [SPEAKER_02]: we drove by those buildings all the time.

[01:00:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's not a secret.

[01:00:16] [SPEAKER_02]: There were three-story condos

[01:00:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and there was no access on the seaside

[01:00:21] [SPEAKER_02]: because they were butted right up to the lake

[01:00:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and there was a drop-off.

[01:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: So you really couldn't access the seaside

[01:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and it was a wooden staircase that was unprotected

[01:00:30] [SPEAKER_02]: because they were built prior to code.

[01:00:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So you've got, you know, the typical,

[01:00:35] [SPEAKER_02]: it's two, two and two with the center staircase.

[01:00:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, the fire started up on the third floor balcony

[01:00:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and it was wind-driven onto the staircase.

[01:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So by the time we get there, the staircase

[01:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: is well involved in fire.

[01:00:49] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if you can't access the back of the building

[01:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and the staircase is well involved

[01:00:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and you've got to go to the third floor,

[01:00:55] [SPEAKER_02]: how are you going to get there?

[01:00:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you're not going to grow a set of wings

[01:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and fly up there.

[01:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: So these were all things that we had to figure out

[01:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: on the fly and, you know,

[01:01:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and I was a mutual aid chief.

[01:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I was coming from the other side of the lake

[01:01:10] [SPEAKER_02]: so that wasn't my first do.

[01:01:13] [SPEAKER_02]: But, you know, we used to drive around our first do all the time

[01:01:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and ask those questions.

[01:01:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Man, what are we going to do?

[01:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: What are we going to do if we get a run here?

[01:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to overcome the distance?

[01:01:22] [SPEAKER_02]: How are we going to overcome the setbacks?

[01:01:25] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, what are we going to do about water supply?

[01:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey, you know, we don't have hydrants

[01:01:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in this part of the district.

[01:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: So what can we figure is our fire ground flow

[01:01:38] [SPEAKER_02]: per tanker that's in the rotation?

[01:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, if you don't have hydrants,

[01:01:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to figure that out.

[01:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: So we did some testing and we came to the point where

[01:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: every 300 gallons of fire ground flow,

[01:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: we needed to have a tanker.

[01:01:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we needed to flow 1200 gallons a minute,

[01:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: we needed four tankers in rotation

[01:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because by the time they, you know, go,

[01:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: they fill up, they come back, they dump,

[01:02:03] [SPEAKER_02]: they go fill and come back.

[01:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, that's time.

[01:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: So, and most of the tankers down there

[01:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: were anywhere from 18 to 2000 gallons.

[01:02:13] [SPEAKER_02]: So you know, they dump 1800 gallons of water,

[01:02:17] [SPEAKER_02]: but then they have to go back and, you know,

[01:02:19] [SPEAKER_02]: fill and come back.

[01:02:20] [SPEAKER_02]: So we, we played around with all this stuff

[01:02:22] [SPEAKER_02]: because we used to talk about this type of stuff

[01:02:25] [SPEAKER_02]: in the firehouse.

[01:02:26] [SPEAKER_02]: What are we going to do?

[01:02:27] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, because figuring it out when we get there,

[01:02:31] [SPEAKER_02]: doesn't work.

[01:02:33] [SPEAKER_02]: It just doesn't work.

[01:02:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, if that's, you know, if,

[01:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: if that's your plan of attack,

[01:02:39] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, just plan on failing, you know,

[01:02:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've never woke up.

[01:02:43] [SPEAKER_02]: There's not a single day I've ever woke up

[01:02:45] [SPEAKER_02]: to say, Hey man, I'm okay with failing

[01:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and being third best, man.

[01:02:49] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to win every fight and I want to be number one.

[01:02:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Now I don't win every fight

[01:02:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm certainly not number one,

[01:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's the way I approach things.

[01:02:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think that when you approach it with that mindset,

[01:03:01] [SPEAKER_02]: you end up winning more than you lose.

[01:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: So it's my fire grab stories.

[01:03:09] [SPEAKER_03]: That's a great mindset and approach.

[01:03:11] [SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.

[01:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: So we did, we talked about some of your lessons that you,

[01:03:15] [SPEAKER_03]: you game planned out ahead of time.

[01:03:19] [SPEAKER_03]: What's the fire service lesson you were in the hard way?

[01:03:24] [SPEAKER_02]: I, you know, quite honestly,

[01:03:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I think when I learned the hard way,

[01:03:29] [SPEAKER_02]: well, well, a couple of things.

[01:03:31] [SPEAKER_02]: Number one is I learned that if you don't

[01:03:33] [SPEAKER_02]: game plan things out and you try to figure it out there,

[01:03:36] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not going to work well for you.

[01:03:39] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's why I'm, you know, such an advocate of that.

[01:03:42] [SPEAKER_02]: And the other thing that I learned is you got to be humble, man,

[01:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: because no matter how hard you work,

[01:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: no matter, you know, there's going to be a bad day.

[01:03:50] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you got to be able to roll with punches.

[01:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you got to be able to say, okay,

[01:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, what do we do well?

[01:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know, what do we need to fix

[01:04:00] [SPEAKER_02]: so that we don't do this?

[01:04:03] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't make the same mistake again.

[01:04:06] [SPEAKER_02]: And, you know, what if you want,

[01:04:08] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're asking for, especially from a chief officer standpoint,

[01:04:12] [SPEAKER_02]: man, you got to be really fluid on the fire ground.

[01:04:14] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to understand that you're going to look at something,

[01:04:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to size something up, decide a strategy

[01:04:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and implement that through your tactical supervisors

[01:04:24] [SPEAKER_02]: who are going to handle the attack,

[01:04:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the tactical and the task level

[01:04:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and the things that they do aren't going to work.

[01:04:31] [SPEAKER_02]: So now you got to be able to, you know,

[01:04:35] [SPEAKER_02]: shift gears in a second on the fire ground.

[01:04:38] [SPEAKER_02]: And I say this, you know, when I teach chief officers

[01:04:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and I teach incident command, you know, Gretzky said

[01:04:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that he always skated to where he thought

[01:04:48] [SPEAKER_02]: the puck was going to be.

[01:04:50] [SPEAKER_02]: He would never skate to where the puck was.

[01:04:52] [SPEAKER_02]: He skated to where he thought it was going to be.

[01:04:55] [SPEAKER_02]: And that's a lesson that I really import to guys,

[01:04:58] [SPEAKER_02]: especially people who are going to eventually be in that IC role, man.

[01:05:04] [SPEAKER_02]: When you're running a fireman,

[01:05:05] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to be 10 minutes out ahead, you know.

[01:05:09] [SPEAKER_02]: You've got to identify what you want to try to do.

[01:05:14] [SPEAKER_02]: Put people in play who can execute what you want done

[01:05:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and have a clear vision on what success on this end is going to look like.

[01:05:27] [SPEAKER_02]: And I'm looking, I'm watching.

[01:05:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I know exactly what I expect.

[01:05:31] [SPEAKER_02]: If my, if the people who are executing the tactics

[01:05:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and the task do or are successful,

[01:05:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I expect to see white steam coming out of the eaves at this point

[01:05:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm looking for it.

[01:05:47] [SPEAKER_02]: And if I don't see it, then what's my next plan?

[01:05:52] [SPEAKER_02]: And I've already got that.

[01:05:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, I'm already working that plan B.

[01:05:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And I learned this from burning buildings down, you know,

[01:06:03] [SPEAKER_02]: from doing a lousy job as an incident commander

[01:06:07] [SPEAKER_02]: because I didn't have a lot of experience

[01:06:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and I really kind of fumbled my way through it.

[01:06:12] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, Roger Alchev told me the day that I,

[01:06:15] [SPEAKER_02]: the day that I walked into the firehouse

[01:06:18] [SPEAKER_02]: my first day as a battalion chief,

[01:06:20] [SPEAKER_02]: he called me in the office and he sat down next to me.

[01:06:23] [SPEAKER_02]: He says, you know, Dennis, you did really well

[01:06:25] [SPEAKER_02]: on the assessment center.

[01:06:27] [SPEAKER_02]: Congratulations.

[01:06:28] [SPEAKER_02]: But the most important test you take is the test

[01:06:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you take every day you come to work

[01:06:34] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's the test that really matters.

[01:06:37] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, when you come to work

[01:06:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're making decisions and running fires

[01:06:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and dealing with personnel, man, you got to be right.

[01:06:45] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, and if you're not,

[01:06:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to figure out what's wrong

[01:06:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and you got to figure out what the fix is real quick.

[01:06:53] [SPEAKER_02]: So, you know, the lessons that I learned on the fire ground

[01:06:58] [SPEAKER_02]: was, you know, escape to where you think the puck's going to be.

[01:07:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Because when I first made chief, you know,

[01:07:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm coming off a busy company, man.

[01:07:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm that task tactical guy.

[01:07:11] [SPEAKER_02]: But now I got to work at that strategic level

[01:07:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and man, I stumbled a couple times, man.

[01:07:17] [SPEAKER_02]: There were a couple fires

[01:07:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that probably could have gone a lot better

[01:07:19] [SPEAKER_02]: had I been skating to where the puck was going to be.

[01:07:23] [SPEAKER_02]: So does that answer your question?

[01:07:26] [SPEAKER_03]: Absolutely.

[01:07:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I think that was an incredible answer to that.

[01:07:30] [SPEAKER_03]: It kind of details right now

[01:07:33] [SPEAKER_03]: none of us are officers in our career departments.

[01:07:35] [SPEAKER_03]: But you can see when you have an aggressive fireman

[01:07:39] [SPEAKER_03]: or aggressive line officer,

[01:07:42] [SPEAKER_03]: the lieutenant or captain and they make the jump,

[01:07:43] [SPEAKER_03]: that they still operate in that rig officer mindset.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_01]: Oh yeah.

[01:07:49] [SPEAKER_03]: And it's definitely a challenge

[01:07:52] [SPEAKER_03]: and then it takes them a little bit to get into it,

[01:07:54] [SPEAKER_03]: but then they become, they're off to the races.

[01:07:56] [SPEAKER_03]: It's just, that's a great way to summarize that.

[01:07:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:08:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think what we do in the fire service,

[01:08:02] [SPEAKER_02]: we do a lousy job, you know, fire service what?

[01:08:06] [SPEAKER_02]: We do a lousy job preparing people for these promotions.

[01:08:10] [SPEAKER_02]: We do a lousy job preparing people

[01:08:13] [SPEAKER_02]: to go from firefighter to company officer.

[01:08:16] [SPEAKER_02]: And I think we do a lousy job preparing people

[01:08:18] [SPEAKER_02]: to go from company officer to chief officer.

[01:08:21] [SPEAKER_02]: Because we don't have these conversations with them.

[01:08:23] [SPEAKER_02]: We don't tell them about this.

[01:08:24] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, they take a test and it's like,

[01:08:26] [SPEAKER_02]: all right, congratulations.

[01:08:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I say this, you know,

[01:08:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I say this in one of my officer development programs.

[01:08:32] [SPEAKER_02]: When you promote, be prepared for this day.

[01:08:35] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's going to, it's going to,

[01:08:37] [SPEAKER_02]: it's going to be like somebody kicked me in the teeth.

[01:08:39] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to walk in the room

[01:08:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and everybody's going to stop talking.

[01:08:43] [SPEAKER_02]: So what's going on?

[01:08:45] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, you were a fireman for 12 years,

[01:08:48] [SPEAKER_02]: but now you're an officer

[01:08:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're going to walk in the room

[01:08:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and everybody's going to stop talking.

[01:08:54] [SPEAKER_02]: And the problem is when that happens,

[01:08:59] [SPEAKER_02]: some men, some women will say,

[01:09:01] [SPEAKER_02]: well, you know, I, you know,

[01:09:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got to kind of be more like one of the fellas

[01:09:07] [SPEAKER_02]: because I got to get a role.

[01:09:08] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, you're the boss, you're the officer.

[01:09:11] [SPEAKER_02]: Expect them to stop talking

[01:09:13] [SPEAKER_02]: when you walk into the room.

[01:09:15] [SPEAKER_02]: And quite honestly, you don't want to know,

[01:09:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is a lesson for cheese,

[01:09:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you don't want to know everything that they're saying.

[01:09:23] [SPEAKER_02]: You don't.

[01:09:25] [SPEAKER_02]: That's just kind of the way it is, you know,

[01:09:27] [SPEAKER_02]: they've got to have their space.

[01:09:29] [SPEAKER_02]: They've got to have their comfort.

[01:09:30] [SPEAKER_02]: They've got to have their ability

[01:09:31] [SPEAKER_02]: to say what's on your mind

[01:09:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and your presence may stop that from happening.

[01:09:41] [SPEAKER_02]: So don't be surprised

[01:09:42] [SPEAKER_02]: when you stop talking when you walk in the room.

[01:09:44] [SPEAKER_02]: And I had that happen a lot.

[01:09:47] [SPEAKER_02]: So I talked about the football game

[01:09:48] [SPEAKER_02]: or I taught, you know,

[01:09:50] [SPEAKER_02]: because I knew the guys, you know,

[01:09:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew the guys, you know,

[01:09:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I knew your sons were playing travel balls.

[01:09:56] [SPEAKER_02]: So I talked about travel ball

[01:09:57] [SPEAKER_02]: or something like that to kind of break the ice.

[01:10:00] [SPEAKER_02]: And then we could have our conversations

[01:10:02] [SPEAKER_02]: business-wise, and then I knew when to leave.

[01:10:05] [SPEAKER_02]: You got to know when to get up

[01:10:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and leave from the table too.

[01:10:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Because your presence at the table

[01:10:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and I say it especially to cheese,

[01:10:12] [SPEAKER_02]: your presence at the table

[01:10:14] [SPEAKER_02]: condones everything that's being said at that table.

[01:10:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And if you're a little bit uncomfortable,

[01:10:21] [SPEAKER_02]: ah, you know,

[01:10:23] [SPEAKER_02]: yep,

[01:10:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you're there.

[01:10:26] [SPEAKER_02]: Conversations going on.

[01:10:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Now, I'm not saying that, you know,

[01:10:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you shouldn't intercede when things,

[01:10:33] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, really cross the line.

[01:10:36] [SPEAKER_02]: Absolutely, you're the chief.

[01:10:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But there are times where as a chief

[01:10:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you just kind of know when to get up

[01:10:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and say, hey man, I got to go to the office.

[01:10:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Hey man, you know, thanks, you know,

[01:10:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm making rounds, I just stopped in.

[01:10:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget who told me this.

[01:10:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Recently I heard somebody say this,

[01:10:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that a good measure for a chief is one cup of coffee.

[01:10:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Come to the firehouse, drink a cup of coffee,

[01:10:57] [SPEAKER_02]: answer any questions when the coffee's done with the firehouse.

[01:11:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't be there.

[01:11:03] [SPEAKER_02]: Don't overstay your welcome

[01:11:05] [SPEAKER_02]: because it's their space

[01:11:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and you've got to kind of respect that.

[01:11:10] [SPEAKER_02]: So, but I don't think that we talked

[01:11:12] [SPEAKER_02]: to up-and-coming officers

[01:11:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and up-and-coming chiefs enough about these things.

[01:11:17] [SPEAKER_02]: We just kind of promote them

[01:11:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and they got to figure it out on their own

[01:11:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and in the process of figuring this out on their own

[01:11:26] [SPEAKER_02]: they make some mistakes that, you know,

[01:11:28] [SPEAKER_02]: can really lead to some problems.

[01:11:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I say this all the time, man.

[01:11:34] [SPEAKER_02]: If fire departments, you know, if they announce promotions,

[01:11:37] [SPEAKER_02]: promotions are coming up and, you know,

[01:11:39] [SPEAKER_02]: we're going to do the test in 90 days.

[01:11:41] [SPEAKER_02]: If they would have me come in

[01:11:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and just let me talk to all the candidates,

[01:11:46] [SPEAKER_02]: just me and the candidates,

[01:11:47] [SPEAKER_02]: give me like 90 minutes.

[01:11:49] [SPEAKER_02]: When I left, I guarantee you a couple of guys

[01:11:52] [SPEAKER_02]: would pull out the process

[01:11:53] [SPEAKER_02]: because I would tell them what it's going to be like.

[01:11:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I would tell them that

[01:11:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to walk in the room one day

[01:11:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're going to stop talking.

[01:12:01] [SPEAKER_02]: You know, you're going to walk in the room one day

[01:12:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and have to pull somebody out

[01:12:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that you've known for 12 years

[01:12:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and have a real tough conversation with them

[01:12:11] [SPEAKER_02]: because of their behaviors.

[01:12:13] [SPEAKER_02]: You're going to have to do that

[01:12:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you don't do that,

[01:12:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, every department I was ever the chief in,

[01:12:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, we always,

[01:12:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I always redid the discipline code

[01:12:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because most times I found discipline codes

[01:12:27] [SPEAKER_02]: to be severely lacking.

[01:12:29] [SPEAKER_02]: But there was a charge of failure supervised.

[01:12:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you were an officer,

[01:12:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I could charge,

[01:12:36] [SPEAKER_02]: if you didn't do your job,

[01:12:38] [SPEAKER_02]: I can charge you a failure to supervise.

[01:12:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And like the first offense was,

[01:12:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, like a, you know,

[01:12:43] [SPEAKER_02]: a 48 hour suspension would not pay.

[01:12:46] [SPEAKER_02]: Like the third one was the motion, you know.

[01:12:48] [SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.

[01:12:50] [SPEAKER_02]: Wow.

[01:12:51] [SPEAKER_02]: But you're the officer.

[01:12:53] [SPEAKER_02]: You're the one in charge

[01:12:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and just understand, you know,

[01:12:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and when you start,

[01:12:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and people, look, a lot of folks

[01:13:01] [SPEAKER_02]: come into the promotional process

[01:13:03] [SPEAKER_02]: very idealistic

[01:13:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and some of them come into the process

[01:13:06] [SPEAKER_02]: just because they want to raise.

[01:13:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Well man, you got to lay this out on the table for them

[01:13:11] [SPEAKER_02]: because this is all part of being an officer.

[01:13:13] [SPEAKER_02]: And I mean, I don't take any joy

[01:13:15] [SPEAKER_02]: in having to do this,

[01:13:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've had to do this before.

[01:13:18] [SPEAKER_02]: And it's a terrible experience, you know.

[01:13:21] [SPEAKER_02]: It was a terrible experience for me

[01:13:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm not the guy who's getting, you know, hammered.

[01:13:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I can only, you know,

[01:13:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I have empathy for a human being

[01:13:28] [SPEAKER_02]: sitting on the other side of the desk.

[01:13:31] [SPEAKER_02]: But that's all part of being an officer.

[01:13:33] [SPEAKER_02]: So if you're going to be

[01:13:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that person,

[01:13:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you need to know

[01:13:39] [SPEAKER_02]: what's entailed

[01:13:40] [SPEAKER_02]: with the position that you're

[01:13:42] [SPEAKER_02]: a pursuant.

[01:13:43] [SPEAKER_02]: And I guarantee you

[01:13:45] [SPEAKER_02]: if I talk to a big pool of

[01:13:48] [SPEAKER_02]: candidates, one or two of them would say,

[01:13:50] [SPEAKER_02]: man, I'll just go to trade school at night

[01:13:52] [SPEAKER_02]: man, I'll get my pulmonary license

[01:13:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'll make money like that

[01:13:55] [SPEAKER_02]: because they just don't want to do it.

[01:13:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And not to say that they're not good employees

[01:14:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and good firefighters,

[01:14:01] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the best employees

[01:14:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and one of the best firefighters

[01:14:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I ever had worked for me.

[01:14:08] [SPEAKER_02]: He stayed a firefighter for 25 years.

[01:14:10] [SPEAKER_02]: He was an electrician.

[01:14:11] [SPEAKER_02]: He was making his money on, I mean

[01:14:13] [SPEAKER_02]: he wanted to be a fireman.

[01:14:16] [SPEAKER_02]: He was very good at what he did.

[01:14:18] [SPEAKER_02]: He wanted the benefits.

[01:14:20] [SPEAKER_02]: He wanted the pension

[01:14:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and being an electrician

[01:14:24] [SPEAKER_02]: is where it really made his money.

[01:14:25] [SPEAKER_02]: Just love being a fireman.

[01:14:27] [SPEAKER_02]: But he never wanted to be a boss

[01:14:29] [SPEAKER_02]: because of all these other things

[01:14:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and he told me outright, you know,

[01:14:33] [SPEAKER_02]: because I asked him one time, I said, man

[01:14:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you're never going to promote.

[01:14:36] [SPEAKER_02]: He goes, man, I don't want anything to do with it.

[01:14:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I see what officers have to go through.

[01:14:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm happy where I am.

[01:14:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I feel like I'm in a good place, man.

[01:14:43] [SPEAKER_02]: This is where I want to be.

[01:14:45] [SPEAKER_02]: So I think that we, you know

[01:14:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that it's incumbent

[01:14:49] [SPEAKER_02]: on senior leadership

[01:14:51] [SPEAKER_02]: to have these type of conversations

[01:14:53] [SPEAKER_02]: with people who are coming up

[01:14:54] [SPEAKER_02]: so they know exactly what they're getting into.

[01:14:57] [SPEAKER_02]: And then once they know,

[01:14:58] [SPEAKER_02]: if they say, hey,

[01:14:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I really want to do this,

[01:15:01] [SPEAKER_02]: okay now how do we get you ready for that?

[01:15:03] [SPEAKER_02]: How do we prepare you

[01:15:06] [SPEAKER_02]: to function

[01:15:07] [SPEAKER_02]: at a high level at that job?

[01:15:14] [SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I think that needs to get

[01:15:16] [SPEAKER_03]: dosed around the fire service quite a bit.

[01:15:19] [SPEAKER_03]: That whole,

[01:15:20] [SPEAKER_03]: everything you just said should be spread

[01:15:22] [SPEAKER_03]: wide and far because it's

[01:15:24] [SPEAKER_03]: I travel, man.

[01:15:25] [SPEAKER_03]: in different areas.

[01:15:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I travel. I'll say it.

[01:15:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm retired, man.

[01:15:32] [SPEAKER_02]: Nobody's going to be able to hurt me, man.

[01:15:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I'll come in and I'll say

[01:15:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll just say the truth.

[01:15:38] [SPEAKER_02]: But I think it's the truth.

[01:15:40] [SPEAKER_02]: And you know,

[01:15:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I put something on my Facebook page

[01:15:43] [SPEAKER_02]: months ago that said

[01:15:46] [SPEAKER_02]: if we want to solve

[01:15:47] [SPEAKER_02]: the problem with fire chiefs

[01:15:50] [SPEAKER_02]: in the fire service.

[01:15:51] [SPEAKER_02]: Look, I can say this because I was a chief.

[01:15:54] [SPEAKER_02]: There's a lot of chiefs out there.

[01:15:57] [SPEAKER_02]: They're doing a great job

[01:15:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's some chiefs out there

[01:15:59] [SPEAKER_02]: doing a shitty job.

[01:16:01] [SPEAKER_02]: If we want to solve that problem,

[01:16:02] [SPEAKER_02]: we got to start promoting

[01:16:05] [SPEAKER_02]: good company officers

[01:16:07] [SPEAKER_02]: because where did chiefs come from?

[01:16:09] [SPEAKER_02]: They come from the company officer way.

[01:16:12] [SPEAKER_02]: So if we want to

[01:16:14] [SPEAKER_02]: enhance

[01:16:15] [SPEAKER_02]: the pool of chief officers,

[01:16:17] [SPEAKER_02]: we got to make sure we're promoting

[01:16:19] [SPEAKER_02]: good company officers

[01:16:21] [SPEAKER_02]: because

[01:16:23] [SPEAKER_02]: somebody can be a really good test taker

[01:16:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and get promoted.

[01:16:28] [SPEAKER_02]: Is that going to happen just one time?

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: If

[01:16:31] [SPEAKER_02]: a really good test taker

[01:16:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're walking enough

[01:16:35] [SPEAKER_02]: to get promoted once,

[01:16:37] [SPEAKER_02]: who says you're not going to do really well

[01:16:39] [SPEAKER_02]: on the next test?

[01:16:41] [SPEAKER_02]: And the test after that, every test

[01:16:43] [SPEAKER_02]: they take, they get erased

[01:16:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and they get more benefits

[01:16:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and they get more prestige or whatever.

[01:16:49] [SPEAKER_02]: You guys, you know what I'm saying.

[01:16:52] [SPEAKER_02]: Some people

[01:16:53] [SPEAKER_02]: gravitate to those positions

[01:16:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that have no business

[01:16:57] [SPEAKER_02]: in those positions.

[01:16:59] [SPEAKER_02]: So, and I think it's

[01:17:01] [SPEAKER_02]: It happens frequently.

[01:17:02] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, I think it's incumbent

[01:17:04] [SPEAKER_02]: on people like me

[01:17:07] [SPEAKER_02]: who

[01:17:08] [SPEAKER_02]: have been around for a long time

[01:17:11] [SPEAKER_02]: who have seen

[01:17:12] [SPEAKER_02]: the good side and the bad side

[01:17:14] [SPEAKER_02]: to be very vocal

[01:17:16] [SPEAKER_02]: about this whole issue

[01:17:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's why every time I get on a podcast,

[01:17:21] [SPEAKER_02]: man, and I've been on a bunch of podcasts

[01:17:23] [SPEAKER_02]: every time I'm on a podcast

[01:17:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mention this. I bring it up

[01:17:26] [SPEAKER_02]: because I think it's very, very important.

[01:17:28] [SPEAKER_02]: We got to make sure we put the right people

[01:17:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in the right seats.

[01:17:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean, Nick Saban said it all the time.

[01:17:35] [SPEAKER_02]: His job was to get the right people

[01:17:37] [SPEAKER_02]: in the right seats

[01:17:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and get the wrong people off of the bus.

[01:17:41] [SPEAKER_02]: That's how he ran

[01:17:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Alabama football

[01:17:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and you can say whatever you want about Alabama

[01:17:47] [SPEAKER_02]: if you like them, you hate them,

[01:17:49] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever you think, Nick Saban is an asshole

[01:17:51] [SPEAKER_02]: or you think he walks on water

[01:17:53] [SPEAKER_02]: look at his record.

[01:17:55] [SPEAKER_02]: Look at his record. How do you argue with that?

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: Yep.

[01:17:58] [SPEAKER_02]: And if we take that type of results

[01:18:02] [SPEAKER_02]: isn't that what we want to see

[01:18:03] [SPEAKER_02]: on the fire ground?

[01:18:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Well, if that's

[01:18:07] [SPEAKER_02]: the type of results

[01:18:09] [SPEAKER_02]: we want to bring to the fire ground

[01:18:10] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe we need to start thinking

[01:18:13] [SPEAKER_02]: about getting the right people

[01:18:15] [SPEAKER_02]: in the right seats

[01:18:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and that means

[01:18:18] [SPEAKER_02]: really talking

[01:18:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to the pool of candidates

[01:18:23] [SPEAKER_02]: for the officer positions

[01:18:25] [SPEAKER_02]: to make sure they know what they're getting into

[01:18:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and then doing the same thing on the recruits side

[01:18:30] [SPEAKER_02]: running a process

[01:18:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and running a recruit school

[01:18:33] [SPEAKER_02]: at a probationary process

[01:18:35] [SPEAKER_02]: that's going to really identify

[01:18:37] [SPEAKER_02]: who is the good fit here.

[01:18:39] [SPEAKER_02]: Because if we had

[01:18:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[01:18:43] [SPEAKER_02]: if we look at it in blocks

[01:18:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you got the fire fires, you got the lieutenants

[01:18:47] [SPEAKER_02]: you got the captains, you got the battalions

[01:18:48] [SPEAKER_02]: if we start getting

[01:18:50] [SPEAKER_02]: these blocks down here

[01:18:52] [SPEAKER_02]: right

[01:18:55] [SPEAKER_02]: these blocks over here are going to be right

[01:18:57] [SPEAKER_02]: but we got to get these ones right

[01:18:59] [SPEAKER_02]: so I think we need to have these conversations

[01:19:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and weigh out the expectations

[01:19:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[01:19:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that's another thing I talk about all the time

[01:19:09] [SPEAKER_02]: in our

[01:19:10] [SPEAKER_02]: officer schools when we promoted people

[01:19:13] [SPEAKER_02]: they had to go to an

[01:19:14] [SPEAKER_02]: officer school, we ran our own officer school

[01:19:16] [SPEAKER_02]: so one of the things that I told them

[01:19:19] [SPEAKER_02]: to do

[01:19:20] [SPEAKER_02]: when the assignments they had is

[01:19:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to write an expectations memo

[01:19:24] [SPEAKER_02]: for new people to come to your company

[01:19:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and I want you to take a day or two

[01:19:30] [SPEAKER_02]: no more than two pages

[01:19:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I want you to write the expectations memo

[01:19:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and on the last

[01:19:35] [SPEAKER_02]: day of the

[01:19:36] [SPEAKER_02]: officer school we're going to sit down

[01:19:39] [SPEAKER_02]: one on one and I'm going to look at

[01:19:40] [SPEAKER_02]: we're going to go over this

[01:19:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm going to give you my feedback

[01:19:45] [SPEAKER_02]: on your

[01:19:46] [SPEAKER_02]: expectations memo

[01:19:48] [SPEAKER_02]: so now

[01:19:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I got new officers going out there

[01:19:52] [SPEAKER_02]: when they

[01:19:54] [SPEAKER_02]: when they get a new person in their

[01:19:56] [SPEAKER_02]: firehouse day one they're setting the expectations

[01:19:59] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:20:00] [SPEAKER_02]: how do you solve some problems?

[01:20:02] [SPEAKER_02]: well you got to set expectations

[01:20:04] [SPEAKER_02]: but it was a

[01:20:06] [SPEAKER_02]: thing that

[01:20:07] [SPEAKER_02]: our folks had to do and quite honestly

[01:20:10] [SPEAKER_02]: people that

[01:20:11] [SPEAKER_02]: got into the promotional process

[01:20:14] [SPEAKER_02]: they knew

[01:20:16] [SPEAKER_02]: that was going to be something

[01:20:18] [SPEAKER_02]: that they had to do

[01:20:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and then

[01:20:22] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a big on chain too

[01:20:24] [SPEAKER_02]: so you go through

[01:20:26] [SPEAKER_02]: our promotional process and you get promoters

[01:20:28] [SPEAKER_02]: so you come to our officer academy

[01:20:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and I make you do

[01:20:32] [SPEAKER_02]: this expectations memo and you and I

[01:20:34] [SPEAKER_02]: sit down and we review it

[01:20:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and I say okay this is good

[01:20:38] [SPEAKER_02]: so now you got to start

[01:20:39] [SPEAKER_02]: issuing that to the people in your company

[01:20:42] [SPEAKER_02]: so six months down

[01:20:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the road when I see somebody

[01:20:45] [SPEAKER_02]: in your company

[01:20:47] [SPEAKER_02]: who is not

[01:20:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in compliance with your expectations memo

[01:20:51] [SPEAKER_02]: who did I talk to?

[01:20:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to Emmerdo I talked to you

[01:20:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I talked to you

[01:20:57] [SPEAKER_02]: because you're the boss

[01:20:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is another thing that I would say

[01:21:02] [SPEAKER_02]: to officer candidates

[01:21:05] [SPEAKER_02]: whenever I saw anything

[01:21:06] [SPEAKER_02]: that I

[01:21:07] [SPEAKER_02]: was wrong

[01:21:09] [SPEAKER_02]: that I didn't agree with there was a problem

[01:21:11] [SPEAKER_02]: on fire ground, problem in the fire house

[01:21:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I didn't want to talk to a firefighter

[01:21:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean why am I going to talk to a firefighter

[01:21:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I got a supervisor here

[01:21:20] [SPEAKER_02]: bear the ones who are in charge

[01:21:21] [SPEAKER_02]: if you don't want

[01:21:24] [SPEAKER_02]: to supervise well let's bring out

[01:21:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the discipline policy that talks about failure

[01:21:28] [SPEAKER_02]: to supervise because

[01:21:30] [SPEAKER_02]: in every promotion

[01:21:31] [SPEAKER_02]: ceremony I've ever gone to

[01:21:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and I've gone to hundreds of promotion ceremonies

[01:21:35] [SPEAKER_02]: I've never seen anybody stand there

[01:21:37] [SPEAKER_02]: with a gun to their head

[01:21:38] [SPEAKER_02]: like you got to get promoted

[01:21:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you chose to promote

[01:21:43] [SPEAKER_02]: now it's a little bit easier

[01:21:45] [SPEAKER_02]: for me because I'm so transparent

[01:21:49] [SPEAKER_02]: in how

[01:21:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I lead and what my expectations are

[01:21:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and everybody knows

[01:21:54] [SPEAKER_02]: that they've got

[01:21:55] [SPEAKER_02]: this is the way it is

[01:21:57] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's like man this is the way it is

[01:22:00] [SPEAKER_02]: why is that guy running around

[01:22:02] [SPEAKER_02]: on fire ground

[01:22:03] [SPEAKER_02]: without his coat on

[01:22:05] [SPEAKER_02]: why is he doing it

[01:22:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you tell me why

[01:22:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know it's

[01:22:13] [SPEAKER_02]: one or two times

[01:22:14] [SPEAKER_02]: and then problems just go away but you know

[01:22:16] [SPEAKER_02]: it's setting expectations it's all this stuff

[01:22:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and I know I mean

[01:22:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I ramble on a lot

[01:22:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I know I've been in like 15 different rabbit holes already

[01:22:25] [SPEAKER_02]: but if you really look

[01:22:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm they're all connected

[01:22:28] [SPEAKER_02]: they're all interconnected

[01:22:29] [SPEAKER_02]: what we have to do as bosses is we got to start

[01:22:32] [SPEAKER_02]: talking about stuff like this

[01:22:35] [SPEAKER_02]: weighing out those

[01:22:36] [SPEAKER_02]: expectations and holding people accountable

[01:22:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's how we build

[01:22:41] [SPEAKER_02]: strength in the service

[01:22:43] [SPEAKER_02]: because

[01:22:45] [SPEAKER_02]: my experience tells me

[01:22:47] [SPEAKER_02]: that professionals

[01:22:48] [SPEAKER_02]: are okay with that

[01:22:50] [SPEAKER_02]: professionals really

[01:22:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what they're really kind of looking for

[01:22:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you know who doesn't

[01:22:57] [SPEAKER_02]: we talk about complacency and we talk about

[01:22:59] [SPEAKER_02]: much in the firehouse all the time

[01:23:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to deal with complacency

[01:23:03] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to deal with much

[01:23:04] [SPEAKER_02]: set expectations and hold people accountable

[01:23:07] [SPEAKER_02]: there you go

[01:23:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you do that

[01:23:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and you tell me what happens

[01:23:11] [SPEAKER_02]: the problems

[01:23:14] [SPEAKER_02]: the problems get solved

[01:23:17] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes you got a street of hostage

[01:23:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I hate that

[01:23:21] [SPEAKER_02]: but the problems get solved

[01:23:23] [SPEAKER_02]: you know you got standards

[01:23:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you got accountability

[01:23:28] [SPEAKER_02]: complacency isn't going to

[01:23:29] [SPEAKER_02]: if I have standards

[01:23:31] [SPEAKER_02]: for performance how can people become complacent?

[01:23:36] [SPEAKER_02]: they can't

[01:23:37] [SPEAKER_02]: but you gotta be willing to have that tough conversation too

[01:23:40] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:23:41] [SPEAKER_02]: these are all things that I like to say on me

[01:23:43] [SPEAKER_02]: I know there's a whole

[01:23:45] [SPEAKER_02]: bunch of things just kind of banging

[01:23:47] [SPEAKER_02]: into each other in this conversation

[01:23:49] [SPEAKER_02]: but I think they're all

[01:23:51] [SPEAKER_02]: pieces of the puzzle

[01:23:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that officers and chiefs

[01:23:54] [SPEAKER_02]: really need to

[01:23:55] [SPEAKER_02]: sit down and think about real hard

[01:23:58] [SPEAKER_02]: you know are we doing this

[01:24:01] [SPEAKER_02]: in our organization?

[01:24:02] [SPEAKER_02]: yes or no

[01:24:04] [SPEAKER_02]: if we are

[01:24:06] [SPEAKER_02]: continue the path

[01:24:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and if we're not

[01:24:09] [SPEAKER_02]: let's start looking at the organization

[01:24:12] [SPEAKER_02]: if we're not doing these things

[01:24:13] [SPEAKER_02]: are we really that effective on the fire ground?

[01:24:16] [SPEAKER_02]: if we're not doing these things

[01:24:18] [SPEAKER_02]: are we having personnel issues

[01:24:20] [SPEAKER_02]: if we're not doing these things

[01:24:23] [SPEAKER_02]: do we have turnover issues

[01:24:25] [SPEAKER_02]: if we're not doing these things

[01:24:26] [SPEAKER_02]: do we have cultural issues

[01:24:28] [SPEAKER_02]: in our fire houses

[01:24:30] [SPEAKER_02]: because if we're doing all of these things

[01:24:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that I'm talking about most of those problems

[01:24:34] [SPEAKER_02]: they just don't live

[01:24:37] [SPEAKER_02]: they can't survive

[01:24:39] [SPEAKER_02]: in those environments

[01:24:40] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:24:41] [SPEAKER_00]: and as a firefighter

[01:24:44] [SPEAKER_00]: from the firefighters perspective

[01:24:46] [SPEAKER_00]: we want those standards

[01:24:48] [SPEAKER_00]: we want to be held accountable

[01:24:50] [SPEAKER_00]: sure and we want bosses

[01:24:52] [SPEAKER_00]: that can

[01:24:54] [SPEAKER_00]: discipline somebody and then go out

[01:24:56] [SPEAKER_00]: and have a beer with them later

[01:24:57] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah

[01:25:00] [SPEAKER_00]: that's what we want

[01:25:02] [SPEAKER_02]: excuse me

[01:25:03] [SPEAKER_02]: it's never about the person

[01:25:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and I tell people it's all a client

[01:25:08] [SPEAKER_02]: it's about the performance

[01:25:09] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not about Jim or Noah

[01:25:13] [SPEAKER_02]: or Rich

[01:25:14] [SPEAKER_02]: it's about the behavior

[01:25:15] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:25:16] [SPEAKER_02]: this is what you did

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: okay

[01:25:20] [SPEAKER_02]: that's not acceptable

[01:25:22] [SPEAKER_02]: based on the expectations that have been set for you

[01:25:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so why did you do that

[01:25:27] [SPEAKER_02]: don't do it again

[01:25:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:25:31] [SPEAKER_02]: the whole thing with expectations

[01:25:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and standards and all that

[01:25:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but I say this all the time

[01:25:38] [SPEAKER_02]: it's as a boss

[01:25:39] [SPEAKER_02]: it's my job to put you in the position

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: to be successful

[01:25:42] [SPEAKER_02]: now

[01:25:43] [SPEAKER_02]: what you choose to do with that

[01:25:46] [SPEAKER_02]: is up to you

[01:25:48] [SPEAKER_02]: my job is to position you

[01:25:50] [SPEAKER_02]: for that

[01:25:51] [SPEAKER_02]: how can you be successful

[01:25:54] [SPEAKER_02]: if you don't know what's expected of you

[01:25:58] [SPEAKER_02]: that's back on me

[01:25:59] [SPEAKER_02]: to set the expectations

[01:26:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's what

[01:26:04] [SPEAKER_02]: you know officers in my opinion

[01:26:06] [SPEAKER_02]: need to be doing

[01:26:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and like I said

[01:26:08] [SPEAKER_02]: when I talk to these

[01:26:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you know this candidate pool

[01:26:12] [SPEAKER_02]: all these people are going to test up

[01:26:14] [SPEAKER_02]: for company or officer and I start talking

[01:26:16] [SPEAKER_02]: to them about that

[01:26:17] [SPEAKER_02]: there's going to be some of them in the room

[01:26:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that they don't have a clue

[01:26:21] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like I don't know

[01:26:23] [SPEAKER_02]: where to start

[01:26:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got to write the expectations

[01:26:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean what are you talking about

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: well you know

[01:26:30] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to be held accountable

[01:26:34] [SPEAKER_02]: for everything those folks do

[01:26:36] [SPEAKER_02]: so if you're going to

[01:26:37] [SPEAKER_02]: be held accountable

[01:26:38] [SPEAKER_02]: don't you think that you need to tell them

[01:26:41] [SPEAKER_02]: what good behaviors look like

[01:26:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean seriously

[01:26:45] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I've had this conversation with officer

[01:26:47] [SPEAKER_02]: candidates and they just look at me

[01:26:50] [SPEAKER_02]: like I'm talking a foreign language

[01:26:51] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like

[01:26:53] [SPEAKER_02]: excuse me bro

[01:26:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to figure this out

[01:26:57] [SPEAKER_02]: or you have a long hard career

[01:27:00] [SPEAKER_02]: as a company officer

[01:27:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean your only hope

[01:27:03] [SPEAKER_02]: is that all the bosses

[01:27:05] [SPEAKER_02]: in your organization are retired

[01:27:07] [SPEAKER_02]: on active duty and you can

[01:27:09] [SPEAKER_02]: escape crew

[01:27:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but if you don't figure this stuff out

[01:27:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and you go to work for a guy like me

[01:27:15] [SPEAKER_02]: how long do you think

[01:27:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to last before you really

[01:27:19] [SPEAKER_02]: get yourself into a tough spot

[01:27:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:27:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and sooner or later you know who knows

[01:27:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you know who knows what that may

[01:27:27] [SPEAKER_02]: eventually lead to

[01:27:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I've seen guys

[01:27:31] [SPEAKER_02]: demoted I've seen guys frozen

[01:27:33] [SPEAKER_02]: in a rank I mean I saw

[01:27:35] [SPEAKER_02]: a guy frozen in a rank

[01:27:37] [SPEAKER_02]: they figured out when he was

[01:27:39] [SPEAKER_02]: eligible to retire

[01:27:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean they went to the calendar

[01:27:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and he figured it out

[01:27:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and they told him that if he stayed one day

[01:27:47] [SPEAKER_02]: longer past this date

[01:27:49] [SPEAKER_02]: they were going to demote him

[01:27:51] [SPEAKER_02]: back to firefighter

[01:27:55] [SPEAKER_02]: sorry

[01:27:58] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know at some point in time

[01:28:01] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I think that

[01:28:02] [SPEAKER_02]: you know we need to be willing

[01:28:04] [SPEAKER_02]: to you know make some

[01:28:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and that was a pretty bold aggressive move

[01:28:07] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:28:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I've talked to people about that

[01:28:12] [SPEAKER_02]: you know you could argue on where they're at

[01:28:14] [SPEAKER_02]: you know they should have just gotten rid of the guy

[01:28:16] [SPEAKER_02]: or whatever well

[01:28:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you know all well and good

[01:28:20] [SPEAKER_02]: until you work from municipal government

[01:28:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and you try to get rid of somebody

[01:28:24] [SPEAKER_02]: who's got like 19 years on

[01:28:26] [SPEAKER_02]: and sometimes

[01:28:28] [SPEAKER_02]: the best that a chief can do

[01:28:30] [SPEAKER_02]: is just limit the damage

[01:28:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that that person's going to do

[01:28:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know and that's what they did in this case

[01:28:37] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's an awful

[01:28:39] [SPEAKER_02]: hard

[01:28:40] [SPEAKER_02]: thing

[01:28:42] [SPEAKER_02]: when you think about it

[01:28:44] [SPEAKER_02]: so if you're coming up

[01:28:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're not willing to set expectations

[01:28:48] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're not willing to hold people accountable

[01:28:50] [SPEAKER_02]: and you don't want to be a person

[01:28:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that's got to answer for the actions

[01:28:55] [SPEAKER_02]: of your personnel

[01:28:56] [SPEAKER_02]: well you may very well be that guy

[01:28:58] [SPEAKER_02]: who gets frozen in rank

[01:29:00] [SPEAKER_02]: until the day you retire

[01:29:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[01:29:05] [SPEAKER_02]: when that happened

[01:29:06] [SPEAKER_02]: then there I mean

[01:29:08] [SPEAKER_02]: this was not broadcast through the organization

[01:29:11] [SPEAKER_02]: but then everybody

[01:29:12] [SPEAKER_02]: in our organization know what's going on

[01:29:14] [SPEAKER_02]: of course they do

[01:29:16] [SPEAKER_02]: so you want to be that person

[01:29:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that's got to come into work

[01:29:20] [SPEAKER_02]: every day

[01:29:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and have that hanging over your head

[01:29:23] [SPEAKER_02]: so this is another thing that I would tell officer candidates

[01:29:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you know if you're going to pursue a promotion

[01:29:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you need to think about things like this

[01:29:32] [SPEAKER_02]: because this is real world

[01:29:33] [SPEAKER_02]: you know guys

[01:29:34] [SPEAKER_02]: this ain't some comic book shit

[01:29:36] [SPEAKER_02]: that you read about

[01:29:38] [SPEAKER_02]: or you know this isn't

[01:29:40] [SPEAKER_02]: something you watch on TV

[01:29:42] [SPEAKER_02]: this is real world things

[01:29:44] [SPEAKER_02]: that we have to do as officers

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and bosses

[01:29:47] [SPEAKER_02]: so if you want to pursue that

[01:29:50] [SPEAKER_02]: it's okay just be prepared

[01:29:53] [SPEAKER_02]: for it

[01:29:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I did

[01:29:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[01:29:58] [SPEAKER_02]: it took me a while

[01:29:59] [SPEAKER_02]: man and I stumbled and I had some problems

[01:30:02] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know I made it through

[01:30:03] [SPEAKER_02]: and quite honestly

[01:30:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I had a great career as a firefighter man

[01:30:07] [SPEAKER_02]: there's many days I wish I was just

[01:30:09] [SPEAKER_02]: kind of riding backwards

[01:30:10] [SPEAKER_02]: but the opportunities I've had as a chief

[01:30:13] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean so many people talk about their organization

[01:30:16] [SPEAKER_02]: man we need to change

[01:30:17] [SPEAKER_02]: we need well

[01:30:19] [SPEAKER_02]: bro

[01:30:20] [SPEAKER_02]: the higher you promote

[01:30:22] [SPEAKER_02]: the more influenced that you have

[01:30:23] [SPEAKER_02]: as a firefighter

[01:30:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you have influence in your firehouse

[01:30:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you can have a lot of influence in your firehouse

[01:30:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and if that's what you're comfortable with

[01:30:31] [SPEAKER_02]: okay that's cool just make it the best

[01:30:33] [SPEAKER_02]: firehouse you have

[01:30:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and then people transferring it out

[01:30:37] [SPEAKER_02]: so maybe you can spread that

[01:30:39] [SPEAKER_02]: into your organization a little bit

[01:30:42] [SPEAKER_02]: but if you promote up

[01:30:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you've got more influence

[01:30:45] [SPEAKER_02]: if you promote up you're going to officer meetings

[01:30:47] [SPEAKER_02]: okay you build a solid reputation

[01:30:50] [SPEAKER_02]: for yourself now all of a sudden

[01:30:51] [SPEAKER_02]: you got one or two other officers

[01:30:53] [SPEAKER_02]: who see things the way you do

[01:30:56] [SPEAKER_02]: now there's three of you

[01:30:58] [SPEAKER_02]: speaking in a unified voice

[01:31:00] [SPEAKER_02]: in an officer's meeting

[01:31:02] [SPEAKER_02]: okay and then you promote up

[01:31:04] [SPEAKER_02]: again now all of a sudden

[01:31:06] [SPEAKER_02]: you're a battalion chief

[01:31:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're sitting there

[01:31:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you're sitting there in the chief's

[01:31:11] [SPEAKER_02]: office every day

[01:31:13] [SPEAKER_02]: talking to the chief one on one

[01:31:16] [SPEAKER_02]: you got a solid reputation

[01:31:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:31:20] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe the chief listens to you

[01:31:21] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe you come into chief and say

[01:31:23] [SPEAKER_02]: hey look chief I'm not really sure

[01:31:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that we're going down the right path

[01:31:27] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes to this particular issue

[01:31:30] [SPEAKER_02]: I think we should go this way

[01:31:33] [SPEAKER_02]: so that we can

[01:31:35] [SPEAKER_02]: create this

[01:31:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and this is what's going to take us

[01:31:38] [SPEAKER_02]: you know and this is what's going to

[01:31:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you know take together us there

[01:31:42] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're having that one on one conversation

[01:31:44] [SPEAKER_02]: with the chief you know

[01:31:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you may be able to influence them

[01:31:48] [SPEAKER_02]: to change their mind on something

[01:31:50] [SPEAKER_02]: so you know

[01:31:52] [SPEAKER_02]: in all the doom and gloom

[01:31:54] [SPEAKER_02]: shit that I talked about being an officer

[01:31:56] [SPEAKER_02]: you know and I did

[01:31:58] [SPEAKER_02]: because that's the real world

[01:32:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you know the other side of it is

[01:32:02] [SPEAKER_02]: you having built your influence

[01:32:06] [SPEAKER_02]: tends to be in a

[01:32:08] [SPEAKER_02]: wider larger circle

[01:32:10] [SPEAKER_02]: if you go back to that

[01:32:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you know the seven

[01:32:13] [SPEAKER_02]: habits of highly affected people

[01:32:15] [SPEAKER_02]: that Covey talks about

[01:32:16] [SPEAKER_02]: as an officer, as a chief

[01:32:19] [SPEAKER_02]: that sphere of

[01:32:20] [SPEAKER_02]: sphere of influence

[01:32:22] [SPEAKER_02]: tends to grow a little bit more

[01:32:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so you can make things happen

[01:32:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you know hey man we got problems

[01:32:29] [SPEAKER_02]: okay well you know

[01:32:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I tell firemen all the time

[01:32:33] [SPEAKER_02]: man you stay here on the couch

[01:32:35] [SPEAKER_02]: and bitch about it all day long

[01:32:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what are you going to do about it

[01:32:38] [SPEAKER_02]: what are you going to do about it

[01:32:40] [SPEAKER_02]: I know a guy

[01:32:41] [SPEAKER_02]: he was one of our

[01:32:45] [SPEAKER_02]: drivers man he'd bitch about

[01:32:46] [SPEAKER_02]: every apparatus the city ever bought

[01:32:48] [SPEAKER_02]: man they don't know what they're doing

[01:32:49] [SPEAKER_02]: this thing sucks

[01:32:52] [SPEAKER_02]: we're speccing new rigs

[01:32:54] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to sit on the apparatus committee

[01:32:55] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have time for that shit

[01:33:00] [SPEAKER_02]: okay well you don't

[01:33:01] [SPEAKER_02]: have time for that then don't bitch about

[01:33:03] [SPEAKER_02]: what they buy

[01:33:06] [SPEAKER_02]: have some influence

[01:33:08] [SPEAKER_02]: is you know

[01:33:09] [SPEAKER_02]: the point that I'm trying to make

[01:33:16] [SPEAKER_03]: that's fantastic

[01:33:18] [SPEAKER_03]: you're preaching to the choir here

[01:33:19] [SPEAKER_03]: but what

[01:33:21] [SPEAKER_03]: so fantastic

[01:33:23] [SPEAKER_02]: well you know

[01:33:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and we say this all the time

[01:33:26] [SPEAKER_02]: the people who

[01:33:28] [SPEAKER_02]: go to seminars

[01:33:31] [SPEAKER_02]: they're not the ones that need to hear this

[01:33:33] [SPEAKER_02]: you know what you got

[01:33:35] [SPEAKER_02]: my experience tells me

[01:33:38] [SPEAKER_02]: that you don't want

[01:33:39] [SPEAKER_02]: those folks here in the room

[01:33:42] [SPEAKER_02]: because all you're going to do

[01:33:43] [SPEAKER_02]: is you're going to bring their negative energy in

[01:33:45] [SPEAKER_02]: they're going to argue with people

[01:33:46] [SPEAKER_02]: they're going to try to prove that they're the smartest person in the room

[01:33:49] [SPEAKER_02]: you know what when you get the white minded

[01:33:51] [SPEAKER_02]: people together

[01:33:53] [SPEAKER_02]: just feed off of the energy

[01:33:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's a good thing

[01:33:57] [SPEAKER_02]: because it stiffens your resolve

[01:33:59] [SPEAKER_02]: it hardens your spine just

[01:34:01] [SPEAKER_02]: a little bit because you're going to have

[01:34:03] [SPEAKER_02]: to go back to the firehouse

[01:34:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're still

[01:34:07] [SPEAKER_02]: going to have to work with Joe the landscaper

[01:34:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:34:10] [SPEAKER_02]: he's not going away

[01:34:13] [SPEAKER_02]: so excuse me

[01:34:14] [SPEAKER_02]: if we can surround ourselves with white minded people

[01:34:17] [SPEAKER_02]: to recharge the batteries

[01:34:19] [SPEAKER_02]: it gives us

[01:34:21] [SPEAKER_02]: a little more strength

[01:34:23] [SPEAKER_02]: to get through the grind

[01:34:24] [SPEAKER_02]: because we got to go back and we got to

[01:34:26] [SPEAKER_02]: deal with the grind

[01:34:29] [SPEAKER_02]: that's just the kind of way it is

[01:34:31] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know Chief McGrell from Denver

[01:34:33] [SPEAKER_02]: says this all the time

[01:34:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and the most important rescue you can make

[01:34:37] [SPEAKER_02]: in your career

[01:34:39] [SPEAKER_02]: is that guy who's sitting on the fence

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_02]: because

[01:34:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the months are the months

[01:34:44] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean we all know who they are

[01:34:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're never going to change them

[01:34:47] [SPEAKER_02]: but there's a whole bunch of guys out there

[01:34:50] [SPEAKER_02]: who are sitting on the fence

[01:34:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and what's going to happen is they're going to move

[01:34:54] [SPEAKER_02]: in the direction of the loudest voice

[01:34:56] [SPEAKER_02]: so when we get

[01:34:58] [SPEAKER_02]: these white minded people together

[01:35:00] [SPEAKER_02]: it just hardens our resolve

[01:35:03] [SPEAKER_02]: because when you're working with the mud

[01:35:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and you start asking yourself well

[01:35:06] [SPEAKER_02]: am I going to be a crazy one

[01:35:07] [SPEAKER_02]: am I the one that doesn't get it

[01:35:10] [SPEAKER_02]: but then

[01:35:13] [SPEAKER_02]: we feed off of each other

[01:35:15] [SPEAKER_02]: we get that resolve

[01:35:17] [SPEAKER_02]: we get that ability

[01:35:18] [SPEAKER_02]: to go back to the firehouse

[01:35:20] [SPEAKER_02]: and in that one guy

[01:35:22] [SPEAKER_02]: we look past the mud

[01:35:23] [SPEAKER_02]: and we see the woman who's kind of sitting on the fence

[01:35:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and she doesn't know which way to go

[01:35:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and well now

[01:35:30] [SPEAKER_02]: we can reach out

[01:35:31] [SPEAKER_02]: and we can pull her over into the camps

[01:35:34] [SPEAKER_02]: hey come on over here

[01:35:35] [SPEAKER_02]: let me ask you a question Suzy

[01:35:40] [SPEAKER_02]: of all the things

[01:35:41] [SPEAKER_02]: we got to do on the fire ground

[01:35:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm not messing with you

[01:35:46] [SPEAKER_02]: quite honestly

[01:35:48] [SPEAKER_02]: what do you struggle with the most

[01:35:49] [SPEAKER_02]: oh you struggle with ladders

[01:35:53] [SPEAKER_02]: let me go show you

[01:35:54] [SPEAKER_02]: a trick come on out here

[01:35:56] [SPEAKER_02]: let's just put our gloves on

[01:35:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and let's just go out in the back

[01:35:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and let me show you one of two tricks

[01:36:02] [SPEAKER_02]: that I found

[01:36:03] [SPEAKER_02]: helps

[01:36:05] [SPEAKER_02]: helps me hen when ladders

[01:36:06] [SPEAKER_02]: or whatever you know forestful entry

[01:36:09] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever who knows what the top is

[01:36:11] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever

[01:36:13] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know

[01:36:14] [SPEAKER_02]: we feed off of each other

[01:36:16] [SPEAKER_02]: positive energy we go back to the firehouse

[01:36:18] [SPEAKER_02]: and then we can make that move on that person

[01:36:21] [SPEAKER_02]: because

[01:36:22] [SPEAKER_02]: we know who the mutts are in the firehouse

[01:36:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you've worked with these people for a while

[01:36:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you know who the ones

[01:36:29] [SPEAKER_02]: you know the ones who are riding on the fence

[01:36:32] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:36:33] [SPEAKER_02]: so going up to them say hey listen

[01:36:36] [SPEAKER_02]: what task do you

[01:36:37] [SPEAKER_02]: struggle with man

[01:36:38] [SPEAKER_02]: is there a task around here

[01:36:41] [SPEAKER_02]: is there a task

[01:36:43] [SPEAKER_02]: that this company does

[01:36:45] [SPEAKER_02]: that you struggle with that I might be able to help you

[01:36:48] [SPEAKER_05]: okay

[01:36:51] [SPEAKER_02]: what defense sitters gonna say

[01:36:54] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean they're sitting there waiting

[01:36:57] [SPEAKER_02]: for somebody to come up

[01:36:58] [SPEAKER_02]: those people who are sitting on a fence

[01:37:00] [SPEAKER_02]: they're waiting for one or two fence

[01:37:02] [SPEAKER_02]: they're waiting for somebody to come up

[01:37:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and say exactly what I just said

[01:37:07] [SPEAKER_02]: or they're waiting for it not to happen

[01:37:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and if it doesn't happen

[01:37:11] [SPEAKER_02]: they go sit here next to the mutt

[01:37:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're gonna join in with them

[01:37:14] [SPEAKER_02]: but when we go out there and say hey listen

[01:37:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm being sincere

[01:37:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I'm telling you to be honest

[01:37:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm being sincere man I'm not messing around

[01:37:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I'm not you know this isn't a joke

[01:37:25] [SPEAKER_02]: you know we're not I mean

[01:37:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm here to help you

[01:37:30] [SPEAKER_02]: with an issue

[01:37:32] [SPEAKER_02]: that you're having a hard time with

[01:37:34] [SPEAKER_02]: because when we go to a fire

[01:37:37] [SPEAKER_02]: we may have to do that

[01:37:39] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're an important part of it

[01:37:41] [SPEAKER_02]: and I don't want to see you fail

[01:37:45] [SPEAKER_02]: so how about that

[01:37:46] [SPEAKER_02]: so we don't you know those people

[01:37:48] [SPEAKER_02]: who need to hear this

[01:37:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I get it

[01:37:51] [SPEAKER_02]: we'll deal with them one on one

[01:37:54] [SPEAKER_02]: back into firehouse

[01:37:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the ones that we can reach out to

[01:37:57] [SPEAKER_02]: but when we sit down in groups like this

[01:37:59] [SPEAKER_02]: let's just keep the positive people here

[01:38:01] [SPEAKER_02]: so we can walk away

[01:38:04] [SPEAKER_02]: in a good mindset

[01:38:05] [SPEAKER_02]: because if we let the other ones

[01:38:07] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I said don't just contaminate everything

[01:38:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I've had them in my classes and seminars

[01:38:11] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like you know they don't want to argue

[01:38:13] [SPEAKER_02]: about everything it's like alright whatever

[01:38:15] [SPEAKER_02]: bro I mean

[01:38:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you've been on for like four years now

[01:38:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you've been to

[01:38:21] [SPEAKER_02]: two dumpster fires in the car fire

[01:38:23] [SPEAKER_02]: but you're going to argue with me about strategy

[01:38:25] [SPEAKER_02]: and tactics okay that's fine

[01:38:27] [SPEAKER_02]: I get it no problem

[01:38:29] [SPEAKER_02]: no problem

[01:38:31] [SPEAKER_02]: 2 plus 2 equals 5

[01:38:33] [SPEAKER_02]: you're absolutely right

[01:38:35] [SPEAKER_02]: next

[01:38:37] [SPEAKER_02]: still cat with a K right?

[01:38:39] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah absolutely you got it

[01:38:43] [SPEAKER_04]: chief if there was

[01:38:45] [SPEAKER_04]: a class, a seminar

[01:38:47] [SPEAKER_04]: a conference, a training weekend

[01:38:49] [SPEAKER_04]: or anything like that

[01:38:50] [SPEAKER_04]: that you would want to make mandatory

[01:38:53] [SPEAKER_04]: for the entire fire service

[01:38:55] [SPEAKER_04]: which one would you choose?

[01:38:58] [SPEAKER_02]: well

[01:39:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd send an FDTN

[01:39:02] [SPEAKER_02]: period

[01:39:04] [SPEAKER_02]: I just started sending them up to FDTN

[01:39:07] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're on an engine

[01:39:08] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to send you to the engine program

[01:39:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you're on a truck I'm going to send you

[01:39:12] [SPEAKER_02]: to the truck program

[01:39:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to send battalion chiefs to their live fire

[01:39:16] [SPEAKER_02]: program

[01:39:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you're on a rescue I'm going to send you to the rescue programs

[01:39:20] [SPEAKER_02]: now with that being said

[01:39:23] [SPEAKER_02]: with that being said

[01:39:25] [SPEAKER_02]: in my opinion

[01:39:26] [SPEAKER_02]: because I'm part of the county fire tactics team

[01:39:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I think county fire tactics

[01:39:31] [SPEAKER_02]: runs

[01:39:32] [SPEAKER_02]: some of the best seminars going

[01:39:34] [SPEAKER_02]: down here on the best beach

[01:39:36] [SPEAKER_02]: in the country which is Pensacola beach

[01:39:39] [SPEAKER_02]: so I go to FDTN

[01:39:41] [SPEAKER_02]: or I go down here to county fire tactics

[01:39:44] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:39:45] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:39:47] [SPEAKER_04]: you can't beat their answers

[01:39:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and I basically

[01:39:51] [SPEAKER_02]: in the work

[01:39:53] [SPEAKER_02]: half a dozen great conferences out there

[01:39:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that are really doing some

[01:39:58] [SPEAKER_02]: fantastic things

[01:39:59] [SPEAKER_02]: Great Lakes hot

[01:40:01] [SPEAKER_02]: Sean Duffy and them guys

[01:40:02] [SPEAKER_02]: they're doing some really great work

[01:40:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Dog on guys

[01:40:06] [SPEAKER_02]: Kevin Fluger, Tom Hollick

[01:40:08] [SPEAKER_02]: down there in Live Oak Texas

[01:40:11] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a good program

[01:40:13] [SPEAKER_02]: my buddy Sam

[01:40:15] [SPEAKER_02]: with the real high squeaky voice

[01:40:17] [SPEAKER_02]: from Hammond Louisiana

[01:40:18] [SPEAKER_02]: he's putting together a fantastic conference

[01:40:21] [SPEAKER_02]: you know small town job town

[01:40:23] [SPEAKER_02]: man he's got a bunch of

[01:40:25] [SPEAKER_02]: really great people coming in

[01:40:27] [SPEAKER_02]: very reasonable price

[01:40:29] [SPEAKER_02]: so there's so much out there

[01:40:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you know once again

[01:40:32] [SPEAKER_02]: the list is on but

[01:40:35] [SPEAKER_02]: quite honestly I don't think

[01:40:37] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a training

[01:40:39] [SPEAKER_02]: going on

[01:40:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you know consistently

[01:40:43] [SPEAKER_02]: with as many opportunities

[01:40:45] [SPEAKER_02]: as you see at FDTN

[01:40:47] [SPEAKER_02]: so I think that is

[01:40:49] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:40:50] [SPEAKER_02]: now my buddy Basil from Orlando

[01:40:52] [SPEAKER_02]: was doing his one bad tour thing

[01:40:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but he's only doing

[01:40:57] [SPEAKER_02]: last time I talked to him

[01:40:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I think next year

[01:41:00] [SPEAKER_02]: they're gonna do three of them

[01:41:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna be at the one in December

[01:41:04] [SPEAKER_02]: and then I think he's gonna try to do

[01:41:06] [SPEAKER_02]: three of them in a year

[01:41:07] [SPEAKER_02]: but that's something too that's you know

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: on the West

[01:41:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it's

[01:41:14] [SPEAKER_02]: there's only like three of them

[01:41:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's a small

[01:41:18] [SPEAKER_02]: class and I think he only takes

[01:41:21] [SPEAKER_02]: 20-25

[01:41:22] [SPEAKER_02]: I forget what the number is

[01:41:24] [SPEAKER_02]: he has a whole bunch of people

[01:41:25] [SPEAKER_02]: it's hard to get into

[01:41:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it's a lot easier to get people

[01:41:31] [SPEAKER_03]: I tried

[01:41:32] [SPEAKER_03]: didn't make it

[01:41:33] [SPEAKER_03]: not this year

[01:41:34] [SPEAKER_03]: but hopefully next year

[01:41:37] [SPEAKER_02]: alright well I'll keep my eye on that

[01:41:39] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll see what I can do

[01:41:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't guarantee man

[01:41:44] [SPEAKER_02]: he runs a great class too

[01:41:46] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah fantastic

[01:41:47] [SPEAKER_02]: but FDTN

[01:41:49] [SPEAKER_02]: there's just so much going on out there

[01:41:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and the other thing is

[01:41:53] [SPEAKER_02]: he's got the facility

[01:41:56] [SPEAKER_02]: there's nothing that he can't

[01:41:57] [SPEAKER_02]: do up there in that facility

[01:41:59] [SPEAKER_02]: and the people

[01:42:01] [SPEAKER_02]: he gets

[01:42:02] [SPEAKER_02]: you know you get

[01:42:05] [SPEAKER_02]: around guys like Michael and Barton

[01:42:07] [SPEAKER_02]: and Bob Presser

[01:42:09] [SPEAKER_02]: Jim McCormick and Sandy

[01:42:11] [SPEAKER_02]: all those other guys made in there are just so

[01:42:13] [SPEAKER_02]: so phenomenal

[01:42:15] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's what I would do

[01:42:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that's where I would put my money

[01:42:21] [SPEAKER_02]: so chief you've been around

[01:42:22] [SPEAKER_03]: but you've had a couple

[01:42:25] [SPEAKER_03]: different regions in the country

[01:42:26] [SPEAKER_03]: a couple different regions, a couple different years

[01:42:30] [SPEAKER_03]: if you had

[01:42:31] [SPEAKER_03]: the chance to sit at a kitchen table

[01:42:32] [SPEAKER_03]: and have dinner with any firefighters you want

[01:42:35] [SPEAKER_03]: you could pick how big the

[01:42:36] [SPEAKER_03]: firehouse is, the engine truck rescue

[01:42:38] [SPEAKER_03]: chief

[01:42:40] [SPEAKER_03]: who would it be and why

[01:42:43] [SPEAKER_03]: kitchen dinner with anybody

[01:42:45] [SPEAKER_02]: hmm

[01:42:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I've you know

[01:42:48] [SPEAKER_02]: because I'm from the northeast

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:42:51] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm an old rescue guy

[01:42:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I want to go to a rescue company up in the FDNY

[01:42:59] [SPEAKER_03]: okay

[01:42:59] [SPEAKER_03]: any firefighters in specific

[01:43:02] [SPEAKER_03]: or just okay

[01:43:03] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah just

[01:43:05] [SPEAKER_02]: those companies

[01:43:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[01:43:09] [SPEAKER_02]: some of the guys

[01:43:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I know by name

[01:43:12] [SPEAKER_02]: because of age or whatever they've retired

[01:43:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and they've kind of moved on

[01:43:16] [SPEAKER_02]: but the guys who are on those companies

[01:43:19] [SPEAKER_02]: man they're just

[01:43:21] [SPEAKER_02]: they're just hard hitting

[01:43:23] [SPEAKER_02]: firefighters

[01:43:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I'd like to spend a little bit of time at the kitchen table with them

[01:43:28] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I'll take my mouth shut

[01:43:30] [SPEAKER_02]: so I don't say a single word

[01:43:31] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to sit there

[01:43:33] [SPEAKER_02]: and just soak it in man

[01:43:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I just want to hear those guys talk

[01:43:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and tell stories and you know

[01:43:39] [SPEAKER_02]: hints and tricks and whatever

[01:43:43] [SPEAKER_02]: but Dan

[01:43:44] [SPEAKER_02]: as I leave

[01:43:47] [SPEAKER_02]: on my way home

[01:43:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to drive because on my way home

[01:43:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to stop in Cherry Hill and hang for a couple of days

[01:43:55] [SPEAKER_03]: that's awesome

[01:43:56] [SPEAKER_03]: you're going to have to

[01:43:57] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah I think a rescue company in the FDNY

[01:44:01] [SPEAKER_02]: is where I'd

[01:44:02] [SPEAKER_02]: spend some time

[01:44:04] [SPEAKER_04]: take me to that dinner with you chief

[01:44:06] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah absolutely

[01:44:09] [SPEAKER_02]: so I tell this story man

[01:44:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I got to tell this story

[01:44:12] [SPEAKER_02]: this is like the pinnacle

[01:44:14] [SPEAKER_02]: of my fire service career

[01:44:16] [SPEAKER_02]: so when

[01:44:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I was in New Jersey

[01:44:20] [SPEAKER_02]: we used to go up in New York City

[01:44:22] [SPEAKER_02]: just kind of you know buffer out a few fire houses

[01:44:24] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever

[01:44:25] [SPEAKER_02]: so we go to rescue one one day

[01:44:27] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like on a Saturday

[01:44:28] [SPEAKER_02]: so bring the bell and they come out

[01:44:31] [SPEAKER_02]: say man we're on the job down in Jersey

[01:44:34] [SPEAKER_02]: they guys come on in man

[01:44:36] [SPEAKER_02]: so we walk into rescue one

[01:44:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and we walk through into the kitchen

[01:44:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you know and the kitchen at rescue one

[01:44:43] [SPEAKER_02]: the back wall of the kitchen

[01:44:44] [SPEAKER_02]: is actually the front wall

[01:44:46] [SPEAKER_02]: the old firehouse

[01:44:47] [SPEAKER_02]: the old firehouse burnt down

[01:44:48] [SPEAKER_02]: they were able to save the front wall

[01:44:50] [SPEAKER_02]: now it's the back wall of the kitchen

[01:44:52] [SPEAKER_02]: so we walk in and this is like

[01:44:54] [SPEAKER_02]: a year after they did the rope job

[01:44:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and we walk in

[01:44:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and Kevin Shea is sitting at the

[01:45:01] [SPEAKER_02]: table you know so we recognize him

[01:45:03] [SPEAKER_02]: right away and go hey man you're Kevin Shea

[01:45:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's the nicest guy

[01:45:06] [SPEAKER_02]: the most humble guy in the world he goes

[01:45:08] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah yeah yeah

[01:45:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and he just kind of puts his head down

[01:45:12] [SPEAKER_02]: so we're sitting there

[01:45:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and I can say this because they're retired now

[01:45:17] [SPEAKER_02]: they get a box come in

[01:45:18] [SPEAKER_02]: for a fire on a subway platform

[01:45:21] [SPEAKER_02]: in Upper Manhattan

[01:45:22] [SPEAKER_02]: somewhere and rescue one's on the box

[01:45:24] [SPEAKER_02]: so Kevin Shea looks at us and he goes

[01:45:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you want to go?

[01:45:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and we go yeah so he yells over to

[01:45:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and he says hey man we'll take these guys from New Jersey

[01:45:32] [SPEAKER_02]: they're on the job and then he goes

[01:45:34] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah just tell them to get up front

[01:45:36] [SPEAKER_02]: so we all pile in the rescue one

[01:45:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and we made a run

[01:45:39] [SPEAKER_02]: for a subway fire on the rescue one

[01:45:42] [SPEAKER_02]: with Kevin Shea

[01:45:44] [SPEAKER_03]: man

[01:45:46] [SPEAKER_03]: not many people who don't work there can say that

[01:45:48] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah

[01:45:49] [SPEAKER_02]: so I mean

[01:45:50] [SPEAKER_02]: I had quit smoking

[01:45:53] [SPEAKER_02]: like 20 years before this happened

[01:45:55] [SPEAKER_02]: man I was ready to stop

[01:45:56] [SPEAKER_02]: and buy a pack of cigarettes

[01:45:57] [SPEAKER_02]: and just sit out on the counter

[01:46:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and have a cigarette

[01:46:03] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean it was

[01:46:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I tell that story

[01:46:08] [SPEAKER_02]: every once in a while

[01:46:09] [SPEAKER_02]: man I just smile every time I do

[01:46:11] [SPEAKER_02]: what an experience

[01:46:12] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:46:13] [SPEAKER_02]: it goes back to like when we started man

[01:46:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I can't believe some of the things

[01:46:17] [SPEAKER_02]: that the fire service has

[01:46:19] [SPEAKER_02]: allowed me to do

[01:46:20] [SPEAKER_02]: the faith that people have put in me

[01:46:24] [SPEAKER_02]: the trust that people have put in me

[01:46:25] [SPEAKER_02]: the opportunities it's given me

[01:46:28] [SPEAKER_02]: the places it's taking me

[01:46:29] [SPEAKER_02]: it's just like man

[01:46:30] [SPEAKER_02]: it's just unbelievable

[01:46:33] [SPEAKER_02]: people say yeah this is the best

[01:46:35] [SPEAKER_02]: job in an unfaceted area

[01:46:37] [SPEAKER_02]: if you don't think it is go out and find it

[01:46:39] [SPEAKER_02]: come back and tell me what it is

[01:46:40] [SPEAKER_02]: and I guarantee you

[01:46:42] [SPEAKER_02]: you won't find anything better than what we get to do

[01:46:46] [SPEAKER_02]: just that simple

[01:46:47] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah

[01:46:49] [SPEAKER_04]: do you have any books

[01:46:52] [SPEAKER_04]: or any material you recommend to anybody

[01:46:56] [SPEAKER_02]: oh man yeah

[01:46:57] [SPEAKER_02]: I got a ton of books

[01:46:59] [SPEAKER_02]: man I'm a big reader

[01:47:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm sitting over here I'm looking at my bookshelf

[01:47:04] [SPEAKER_02]: there's so

[01:47:05] [SPEAKER_02]: so much

[01:47:08] [SPEAKER_02]: off the top of my head

[01:47:09] [SPEAKER_02]: I read a lot of Jaco stuff

[01:47:11] [SPEAKER_02]: you know and I'll say this

[01:47:14] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:47:15] [SPEAKER_02]: well I can say this because

[01:47:17] [SPEAKER_02]: Jaco doesn't live anywhere near me so I'm not

[01:47:19] [SPEAKER_02]: worried about him breaking my door down

[01:47:21] [SPEAKER_02]: kicking my ass

[01:47:22] [SPEAKER_02]: when you look at what Jaco says

[01:47:24] [SPEAKER_02]: just understand that Jaco's work

[01:47:27] [SPEAKER_02]: experience

[01:47:29] [SPEAKER_02]: he is in there's two things

[01:47:31] [SPEAKER_02]: that make his environment

[01:47:33] [SPEAKER_02]: unique number one

[01:47:35] [SPEAKER_02]: he is working

[01:47:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:47:37] [SPEAKER_02]: with the end product

[01:47:39] [SPEAKER_02]: of one of the most

[01:47:41] [SPEAKER_02]: strenuous selection processes

[01:47:45] [SPEAKER_02]: in the military

[01:47:46] [SPEAKER_02]: anywhere on the face of the earth

[01:47:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and the other thing is that everybody who goes to Buds

[01:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: has

[01:47:51] [SPEAKER_02]: the goal of being a seal

[01:47:54] [SPEAKER_02]: they want to be a seal

[01:47:56] [SPEAKER_02]: we got guys sitting in a firehouse

[01:47:58] [SPEAKER_02]: they couldn't care less

[01:48:00] [SPEAKER_02]: if they were a fireman

[01:48:01] [SPEAKER_02]: or if they worked for public works

[01:48:04] [SPEAKER_02]: or if they worked wherever

[01:48:06] [SPEAKER_02]: as long as the paycheck came on time

[01:48:08] [SPEAKER_02]: they get their vacation

[01:48:10] [SPEAKER_02]: and they get their pension

[01:48:11] [SPEAKER_02]: so some of the things that Jaco says

[01:48:14] [SPEAKER_02]: works really well in his environment

[01:48:17] [SPEAKER_02]: but we got to figure out

[01:48:19] [SPEAKER_02]: how we can mold it to fit

[01:48:20] [SPEAKER_02]: our environment because

[01:48:22] [SPEAKER_02]: a lot of us are not

[01:48:24] [SPEAKER_02]: working for an organization

[01:48:26] [SPEAKER_02]: it's got a really stringent

[01:48:28] [SPEAKER_02]: selection process

[01:48:30] [SPEAKER_02]: and we're working with folks that

[01:48:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:48:35] [SPEAKER_02]: sometimes they care and sometimes they don't

[01:48:37] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's one thing about

[01:48:39] [SPEAKER_02]: the Jaco stuff

[01:48:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I know

[01:48:43] [SPEAKER_02]: Chief Lee from the FDNY

[01:48:46] [SPEAKER_02]: I think

[01:48:47] [SPEAKER_02]: Cornerstone is the leadership that he wrote

[01:48:49] [SPEAKER_02]: is an excellent book

[01:48:51] [SPEAKER_02]: anybody who has any

[01:48:53] [SPEAKER_02]: ambitions whatsoever at all

[01:48:55] [SPEAKER_02]: to move up should read that

[01:48:57] [SPEAKER_02]: Coral and Moore's book The Nine Elves

[01:49:00] [SPEAKER_02]: is a good book for fire service leaders

[01:49:02] [SPEAKER_02]: written

[01:49:04] [SPEAKER_02]: from the perspective of a fire service leader

[01:49:07] [SPEAKER_02]: I just got done

[01:49:08] [SPEAKER_02]: reading, I'm looking at it right now

[01:49:10] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what the author

[01:49:11] [SPEAKER_02]: I can't figure out the author's name

[01:49:14] [SPEAKER_02]: from where I'm sitting but it's called

[01:49:16] [SPEAKER_02]: Legacy and it's about

[01:49:18] [SPEAKER_02]: the New Zealand All Blacks

[01:49:20] [SPEAKER_02]: rugby team

[01:49:22] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's about how

[01:49:24] [SPEAKER_02]: they went through these transitions

[01:49:27] [SPEAKER_02]: to make them

[01:49:28] [SPEAKER_02]: into probably the most

[01:49:30] [SPEAKER_02]: dominant

[01:49:33] [SPEAKER_02]: professional sports team on the face of

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: the earth

[01:49:35] [SPEAKER_02]: all the little things they did

[01:49:39] [SPEAKER_02]: they talked about

[01:49:40] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the things in there, they talked about sweeping

[01:49:42] [SPEAKER_02]: the shed which means everybody

[01:49:44] [SPEAKER_02]: cleans the locker room

[01:49:45] [SPEAKER_02]: nobody is above

[01:49:48] [SPEAKER_02]: doing

[01:49:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the small task

[01:49:51] [SPEAKER_02]: to get the job done

[01:49:53] [SPEAKER_02]: and it just really kind of go into that

[01:49:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I think that's a really good book

[01:49:58] [SPEAKER_02]: there's another book that I used

[01:50:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to give to officers when I promoted

[01:50:02] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's called

[01:50:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Leadership in Training for the Flight

[01:50:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's written by Paul Howell

[01:50:09] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's a retired

[01:50:10] [SPEAKER_02]: master sergeant that came out of the

[01:50:12] [SPEAKER_02]: special missions unit with Delta Force

[01:50:14] [SPEAKER_02]: in the US Army

[01:50:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and he was one of

[01:50:17] [SPEAKER_02]: he was on the ground

[01:50:19] [SPEAKER_02]: during the Battle of Mogadishu

[01:50:21] [SPEAKER_02]: he's one of the team leaders

[01:50:23] [SPEAKER_02]: of Delta

[01:50:24] [SPEAKER_02]: and he was

[01:50:26] [SPEAKER_02]: boots on the ground

[01:50:27] [SPEAKER_02]: in Mogadishu so

[01:50:29] [SPEAKER_02]: if there's anybody who qualifies as an expert

[01:50:32] [SPEAKER_02]: for high performance

[01:50:34] [SPEAKER_02]: in a high-fret situation

[01:50:36] [SPEAKER_02]: you gotta give them that

[01:50:38] [SPEAKER_02]: but it's a real easy book

[01:50:41] [SPEAKER_02]: to read and

[01:50:42] [SPEAKER_02]: it's written

[01:50:43] [SPEAKER_02]: in a way that

[01:50:46] [SPEAKER_02]: you can apply it

[01:50:48] [SPEAKER_02]: to the fire service just not about the military

[01:50:51] [SPEAKER_02]: it's not about

[01:50:52] [SPEAKER_02]: the army going out and killing

[01:50:54] [SPEAKER_02]: folk and winning battles

[01:50:56] [SPEAKER_02]: it's about how you bring

[01:50:59] [SPEAKER_02]: people together

[01:51:00] [SPEAKER_02]: and perform in a high level in that environment

[01:51:03] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's a really good book

[01:51:05] [SPEAKER_02]: Going Pro by Tony Curd

[01:51:08] [SPEAKER_02]: is an excellent book

[01:51:09] [SPEAKER_02]: you know that book

[01:51:11] [SPEAKER_02]: talks about the levels

[01:51:13] [SPEAKER_02]: of professionalism like the first level

[01:51:15] [SPEAKER_02]: of professionalism is

[01:51:17] [SPEAKER_02]: you know enough where you can make a living

[01:51:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:51:20] [SPEAKER_02]: off of what you do

[01:51:21] [SPEAKER_02]: and then that upper level of professionalism

[01:51:24] [SPEAKER_02]: is that you know you're driven

[01:51:26] [SPEAKER_02]: you have your own standards

[01:51:28] [SPEAKER_02]: he talks about the difference between

[01:51:30] [SPEAKER_02]: naive and deliberate practice

[01:51:32] [SPEAKER_02]: I go out in the back and I just practice

[01:51:34] [SPEAKER_02]: practice practice thinking

[01:51:36] [SPEAKER_02]: now I'm going to get better

[01:51:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's just naive practice

[01:51:40] [SPEAKER_02]: because what happens

[01:51:42] [SPEAKER_02]: is when we practice a skill

[01:51:44] [SPEAKER_02]: and we don't have somebody there coaching us

[01:51:46] [SPEAKER_02]: all we end up doing is practicing

[01:51:49] [SPEAKER_02]: the same mistakes

[01:51:51] [SPEAKER_02]: we've always made

[01:51:52] [SPEAKER_02]: and we hardwired those mistakes

[01:51:55] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's a big problem

[01:51:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:51:59] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the stupidest things

[01:52:01] [SPEAKER_02]: I ever did was trying to teach myself

[01:52:03] [SPEAKER_02]: how to play golf

[01:52:04] [SPEAKER_02]: because I developed

[01:52:07] [SPEAKER_02]: all these bad habits

[01:52:08] [SPEAKER_02]: and it wasn't until my wife

[01:52:10] [SPEAKER_02]: my wife paid for lessons

[01:52:12] [SPEAKER_02]: with a pro I think from my birthday

[01:52:14] [SPEAKER_02]: or maybe father's day or something

[01:52:16] [SPEAKER_02]: and it took me so long

[01:52:18] [SPEAKER_02]: to unlearn the bad habits

[01:52:21] [SPEAKER_02]: that I developed

[01:52:22] [SPEAKER_02]: trying to teach myself before the pro

[01:52:25] [SPEAKER_02]: could actually help me work on

[01:52:27] [SPEAKER_02]: my swing and get it to the point

[01:52:29] [SPEAKER_02]: where I was hitting the ball straight

[01:52:30] [SPEAKER_02]: but that talks

[01:52:32] [SPEAKER_02]: about the difference between naive

[01:52:34] [SPEAKER_02]: and deliberate practice

[01:52:36] [SPEAKER_02]: and then anything that Coil writes

[01:52:38] [SPEAKER_02]: the culture

[01:52:39] [SPEAKER_02]: the culture code

[01:52:43] [SPEAKER_02]: and there's another one that he wrote

[01:52:46] [SPEAKER_02]: about

[01:52:47] [SPEAKER_02]: the talent coaching training

[01:52:49] [SPEAKER_03]: was it the talent code?

[01:52:52] [SPEAKER_02]: that's it, yeah

[01:52:53] [SPEAKER_02]: those two I mean

[01:52:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and the talent code is real good because he really talks

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_02]: about

[01:52:57] [SPEAKER_02]: the process of hardwiring

[01:53:01] [SPEAKER_02]: neuro pathways to

[01:53:02] [SPEAKER_02]: a task becomes

[01:53:04] [SPEAKER_02]: instinctive and reflexive

[01:53:06] [SPEAKER_02]: based on the accumulation of myelin

[01:53:09] [SPEAKER_02]: in the neuro transmitting pathways

[01:53:12] [SPEAKER_02]: and

[01:53:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm not that smart

[01:53:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I just read the book

[01:53:17] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean I'm really

[01:53:18] [SPEAKER_02]: I got it pretty good

[01:53:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm really not that smart but I read the book

[01:53:23] [SPEAKER_02]: but I mean the talent code

[01:53:25] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[01:53:27] [SPEAKER_02]: that's a Westman, there's a bunch of

[01:53:29] [SPEAKER_02]: reading but you know what

[01:53:31] [SPEAKER_02]: if you're going to be a professional

[01:53:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, read

[01:53:37] [SPEAKER_02]: tell me what doctor

[01:53:40] [SPEAKER_02]: does not read medical journals

[01:53:42] [SPEAKER_02]: tell me what

[01:53:43] [SPEAKER_02]: lawyer does not read

[01:53:45] [SPEAKER_02]: war journals

[01:53:47] [SPEAKER_02]: tell me what professor

[01:53:49] [SPEAKER_02]: is not reading

[01:53:51] [SPEAKER_02]: journals within their realm

[01:53:53] [SPEAKER_02]: of expertise

[01:53:55] [SPEAKER_02]: but we want to call ourselves professionals all day long

[01:53:58] [SPEAKER_02]: oh yeah man, professional

[01:53:59] [SPEAKER_02]: hell yeah, I mean I got a t-shirt

[01:54:02] [SPEAKER_02]: I walk into Starbucks

[01:54:03] [SPEAKER_02]: they give me 20% off

[01:54:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and I get to go to the firehouse and sit in a recliner

[01:54:07] [SPEAKER_02]: all day long, does that make me a professional?

[01:54:10] [SPEAKER_02]: no, not really bro

[01:54:12] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[01:54:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to read, you got to do all these other things

[01:54:15] [SPEAKER_02]: so that's a list of books that I would highly recommend

[01:54:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and they're good man

[01:54:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know, they're good

[01:54:21] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got each one of those books

[01:54:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean they're on the other side of the room

[01:54:26] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got them highlighted

[01:54:27] [SPEAKER_02]: you know pages are all dog-eared

[01:54:29] [SPEAKER_02]: and I got like post-it notes in them

[01:54:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you know if you're going to

[01:54:33] [SPEAKER_02]: understand

[01:54:35] [SPEAKER_02]: how to work at a high level

[01:54:38] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to do the research man

[01:54:40] [SPEAKER_02]: you just got to do the research

[01:54:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean there's so many people

[01:54:43] [SPEAKER_02]: you know they drop down here

[01:54:45] [SPEAKER_02]: they flop in the fire academy

[01:54:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and they get their fire officer 1 certification

[01:54:49] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like man, I'm made

[01:54:51] [SPEAKER_02]: it's like man

[01:54:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you're nowhere near it man

[01:54:53] [SPEAKER_02]: there's so much out there

[01:54:55] [SPEAKER_02]: that those programs don't cover

[01:54:58] [SPEAKER_02]: that are so important

[01:55:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to be able to do this job

[01:55:02] [SPEAKER_02]: man it's like

[01:55:04] [SPEAKER_02]: don't cheat yourself

[01:55:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you

[01:55:08] [SPEAKER_02]: took an oath and you swore

[01:55:10] [SPEAKER_02]: on a bible in front of your community

[01:55:13] [SPEAKER_02]: that you were going to do your job

[01:55:15] [SPEAKER_02]: to the best of your ability

[01:55:17] [SPEAKER_02]: maybe that means

[01:55:19] [SPEAKER_02]: you got to read a little bit

[01:55:20] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:55:23] [SPEAKER_02]: excuse me, I'm an old school guy

[01:55:25] [SPEAKER_02]: man, you know I read

[01:55:26] [SPEAKER_02]: man I want to turn those pages

[01:55:28] [SPEAKER_02]: and whatever, if you don't like to read

[01:55:30] [SPEAKER_02]: man every book that I talked about

[01:55:32] [SPEAKER_02]: is available on audio books

[01:55:34] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:55:36] [SPEAKER_02]: download them on your phone

[01:55:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean guys are sitting here

[01:55:40] [SPEAKER_02]: guys are sitting around the fire house for 5 hours

[01:55:42] [SPEAKER_02]: watching you know

[01:55:44] [SPEAKER_02]: the marathon on TV when the A team

[01:55:46] [SPEAKER_02]: oh shit

[01:55:48] [SPEAKER_02]: get a set of buds

[01:55:50] [SPEAKER_02]: put them in your ear

[01:55:51] [SPEAKER_02]: download one of these books and sit in a recline

[01:55:54] [SPEAKER_02]: and listen to the book what do you have a mutzl watch on TV

[01:55:57] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:55:58] [SPEAKER_02]: do something

[01:56:00] [SPEAKER_02]: to make yourself a little bit better

[01:56:02] [SPEAKER_02]: today

[01:56:03] [SPEAKER_02]: than you were yesterday

[01:56:05] [SPEAKER_02]: and if you start doing that as a habit

[01:56:08] [SPEAKER_02]: you're going to make your set

[01:56:09] [SPEAKER_02]: every day you're going to be a little bit better than you were

[01:56:11] [SPEAKER_02]: and you're going to just keep on getting better

[01:56:13] [SPEAKER_02]: and better and better

[01:56:15] [SPEAKER_02]: and the winds

[01:56:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and the positive energy

[01:56:18] [SPEAKER_02]: are going to carry you through a very successful career

[01:56:23] [SPEAKER_04]: I love that chief

[01:56:26] [SPEAKER_04]: that's great

[01:56:26] [SPEAKER_04]: yeah

[01:56:27] [SPEAKER_03]: I don't think you can sum up that any better

[01:56:30] [SPEAKER_03]: right there

[01:56:32] [SPEAKER_03]: that's just fantastic

[01:56:34] [SPEAKER_05]: yeah

[01:56:35] [SPEAKER_03]: I know what my probie is listening to this week

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_01]: yeah

[01:56:39] [SPEAKER_01]: there you go

[01:56:42] [SPEAKER_01]: turn a lose man give him my number

[01:56:44] [SPEAKER_01]: no

[01:56:46] [SPEAKER_03]: I absolutely will

[01:56:47] [SPEAKER_03]: he's a great kid he's coming along

[01:56:50] [SPEAKER_03]: really well right now

[01:56:51] [SPEAKER_03]: but this will be a great lesson for him

[01:56:53] [SPEAKER_03]: not because of us but you've been

[01:56:54] [SPEAKER_03]: absolutely hitting the home runs for the past

[01:56:56] [SPEAKER_03]: every bit of two hours

[01:56:57] [SPEAKER_01]: well thanks man

[01:56:59] [SPEAKER_02]: I hear guys

[01:57:01] [SPEAKER_02]: all these young guys this and that

[01:57:03] [SPEAKER_02]: young generation

[01:57:05] [SPEAKER_02]: that bullshit about the plus and minus

[01:57:07] [SPEAKER_02]: screwdriver and all that crap

[01:57:09] [SPEAKER_02]: that I hear people take

[01:57:10] [SPEAKER_02]: one of the best people I ever hired

[01:57:14] [SPEAKER_02]: was a 19 year old guy

[01:57:17] [SPEAKER_02]: young guy

[01:57:18] [SPEAKER_02]: young

[01:57:21] [SPEAKER_02]: respectful

[01:57:22] [SPEAKER_02]: honest

[01:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: inquisitive

[01:57:24] [SPEAKER_02]: would ask questions the right way

[01:57:26] [SPEAKER_02]: because he wanted to understand

[01:57:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean he was a phenomenal

[01:57:30] [SPEAKER_02]: man he stayed with us for a couple

[01:57:33] [SPEAKER_02]: of years they moved on to a larger department

[01:57:35] [SPEAKER_02]: when I found out

[01:57:37] [SPEAKER_02]: he came and talked to me and I knew

[01:57:39] [SPEAKER_02]: the chief I called the chief up and I said

[01:57:40] [SPEAKER_02]: hey man I hate to do this

[01:57:42] [SPEAKER_02]: because I hate that he was a good guy

[01:57:44] [SPEAKER_02]: but if you're a hire

[01:57:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and hire this guy

[01:57:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and he's going to do a great job for you

[01:57:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and he moved on and did a great job

[01:57:51] [SPEAKER_02]: but literally I mean he was

[01:57:53] [SPEAKER_02]: I think when he interviewed

[01:57:55] [SPEAKER_02]: you had to be 19

[01:57:56] [SPEAKER_02]: to be hired when he interviewed he was 18 years old

[01:58:00] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[01:58:00] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a whole bunch of great people

[01:58:03] [SPEAKER_02]: out there that are just

[01:58:05] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean they're just

[01:58:07] [SPEAKER_02]: looking to be put in that

[01:58:09] [SPEAKER_02]: right situation

[01:58:11] [SPEAKER_02]: man so they can flourish

[01:58:13] [SPEAKER_02]: you know

[01:58:15] [SPEAKER_02]: I hear it all the time

[01:58:16] [SPEAKER_02]: oh yeah young guys whatever

[01:58:19] [SPEAKER_02]: and I say this

[01:58:21] [SPEAKER_02]: if I live

[01:58:23] [SPEAKER_02]: if I grow up in New York

[01:58:25] [SPEAKER_02]: in like Brooklyn

[01:58:26] [SPEAKER_02]: or the Bronx

[01:58:27] [SPEAKER_02]: and I live in like a 22 story

[01:58:30] [SPEAKER_02]: high-rise do I have a chainsaw

[01:58:32] [SPEAKER_02]: in my closet

[01:58:35] [SPEAKER_02]: but if I go to work for the New York City Fire Department

[01:58:37] [SPEAKER_02]: they teach me how to run the chainsaw

[01:58:39] [SPEAKER_02]: don't they?

[01:58:40] [SPEAKER_02]: they figure out how to do it

[01:58:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you know these young guys

[01:58:43] [SPEAKER_02]: this young generation

[01:58:45] [SPEAKER_02]: can that shit man

[01:58:47] [SPEAKER_02]: can that okay

[01:58:48] [SPEAKER_02]: you grow up in New York City and never have a drive

[01:58:51] [SPEAKER_02]: you grow up in New York City

[01:58:53] [SPEAKER_02]: take public transportation to school

[01:58:55] [SPEAKER_02]: the only time you get a driver's license is to

[01:58:57] [SPEAKER_02]: get on the fire department you've never driven a damn car

[01:59:00] [SPEAKER_02]: but you know what

[01:59:01] [SPEAKER_02]: seven years in

[01:59:02] [SPEAKER_02]: these people are driving aerials

[01:59:05] [SPEAKER_02]: in Manhattan

[01:59:06] [SPEAKER_02]: so you tell me

[01:59:08] [SPEAKER_02]: that these people aren't trainable

[01:59:10] [SPEAKER_02]: come on

[01:59:11] [SPEAKER_02]: what world do you live in?

[01:59:13] [SPEAKER_02]: they're not trainable

[01:59:14] [SPEAKER_02]: because one of two things

[01:59:16] [SPEAKER_02]: number one you're either too lazy to train them

[01:59:19] [SPEAKER_02]: or number two you don't know enough about

[01:59:21] [SPEAKER_02]: your job to be able to teach them

[01:59:24] [SPEAKER_02]: so bag that shit

[01:59:26] [SPEAKER_02]: if the fire department meant

[01:59:27] [SPEAKER_02]: anything to you oh yeah I love this place

[01:59:30] [SPEAKER_02]: whatever well guess what

[01:59:31] [SPEAKER_02]: you're not going to be here for 200 years

[01:59:34] [SPEAKER_02]: those young people that you're

[01:59:36] [SPEAKER_02]: shitting on are the future

[01:59:38] [SPEAKER_02]: of this organization

[01:59:39] [SPEAKER_02]: so if you care about this organization

[01:59:41] [SPEAKER_02]: you'll learn how to communicate

[01:59:44] [SPEAKER_02]: with them you'll care about them

[01:59:46] [SPEAKER_02]: and you'll position them to be

[01:59:47] [SPEAKER_02]: successful so that when you leave

[01:59:50] [SPEAKER_02]: the organization

[01:59:51] [SPEAKER_02]: continues to move forward

[01:59:53] [SPEAKER_02]: so other than that

[01:59:56] [SPEAKER_02]: I don't have time for that

[01:59:58] [SPEAKER_02]: bullshit

[01:59:59] [SPEAKER_02]: that we hear a lot of people squawking about

[02:00:02] [SPEAKER_02]: in the firehouse

[02:00:06] [SPEAKER_03]: that's amazing

[02:00:06] [SPEAKER_03]: where can everybody find you because

[02:00:09] [SPEAKER_03]: everyone needs some more of this

[02:00:10] [SPEAKER_03]: so your social media is

[02:00:12] [SPEAKER_03]: where can everybody get you right now?

[02:00:14] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah so

[02:00:15] [SPEAKER_02]: my company

[02:00:17] [SPEAKER_02]: and my company is just me

[02:00:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I can bunch guys work for me

[02:00:23] [SPEAKER_02]: it's just me but I'm the

[02:00:25] [SPEAKER_02]: first line fire service training

[02:00:27] [SPEAKER_02]: LLC

[02:00:28] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm on Facebook and I got an Instagram page

[02:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: first line

[02:00:32] [SPEAKER_02]: 850 on Instagram

[02:00:36] [SPEAKER_02]: I was saying

[02:00:37] [SPEAKER_02]: and that's where I am

[02:00:38] [SPEAKER_02]: and I'm pretty easy to find man

[02:00:41] [SPEAKER_02]: so if anybody's got any questions I always say this man

[02:00:44] [SPEAKER_02]: you know I put up

[02:00:45] [SPEAKER_02]: if you go to linktree

[02:00:47] [SPEAKER_02]: and look for me

[02:00:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a linktree that's got

[02:00:50] [SPEAKER_02]: contact form

[02:00:52] [SPEAKER_02]: you can contact me

[02:00:54] [SPEAKER_02]: my email is denis.firstline

[02:00:57] [SPEAKER_02]: at gmail

[02:00:58] [SPEAKER_02]: so you can email me

[02:01:00] [SPEAKER_02]: you can go to my linktree

[02:01:01] [SPEAKER_02]: it's got links to all the articles I've written

[02:01:04] [SPEAKER_02]: all the podcasts I've been on

[02:01:05] [SPEAKER_02]: once this gets published I'll link this to my linktree

[02:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: so

[02:01:08] [SPEAKER_02]: if anybody's got any questions man

[02:01:11] [SPEAKER_02]: reach out I'm just here man

[02:01:14] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm just one guy

[02:01:16] [SPEAKER_02]: who's trying to leave it better than I found

[02:01:18] [SPEAKER_02]: it so I'm available

[02:01:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean

[02:01:21] [SPEAKER_02]: a selfless plug from my company

[02:01:23] [SPEAKER_02]: I travel there's organizations

[02:01:26] [SPEAKER_02]: that are looking for

[02:01:27] [SPEAKER_02]: some of the things I talked about

[02:01:29] [SPEAKER_02]: that would like me to come in

[02:01:32] [SPEAKER_02]: we can discuss terms or whatever

[02:01:34] [SPEAKER_02]: I travel I mean I got a pretty heavy schedule

[02:01:37] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to

[02:01:39] [SPEAKER_02]: let's see I'm going to Houston this weekend

[02:01:41] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm going to South Dakota

[02:01:42] [SPEAKER_02]: I'll be in Wisconsin

[02:01:44] [SPEAKER_02]: Ohio

[02:01:45] [SPEAKER_02]: and Louisiana this year

[02:01:48] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got a couple engagements booked

[02:01:50] [SPEAKER_02]: in the next year

[02:01:51] [SPEAKER_02]: I really like doing the seminars

[02:01:54] [SPEAKER_02]: but I really like dealing with

[02:01:56] [SPEAKER_02]: fire departments where I can kind of come in

[02:01:58] [SPEAKER_02]: and you know spend like an eight hour

[02:02:00] [SPEAKER_02]: day with your people

[02:02:01] [SPEAKER_02]: get a feel for

[02:02:04] [SPEAKER_02]: where you are

[02:02:05] [SPEAKER_02]: where you want to go

[02:02:06] [SPEAKER_02]: and kind of tell our stuff

[02:02:09] [SPEAKER_02]: to bridge that gap so

[02:02:11] [SPEAKER_02]: just a little plug man

[02:02:12] [SPEAKER_02]: while we're talking

[02:02:14] [SPEAKER_03]: we'll have to get you back to Jersey

[02:02:16] [SPEAKER_02]: yeah man anytime

[02:02:19] [SPEAKER_00]: we could do a two for one

[02:02:21] [SPEAKER_00]: we'll do a two for one with

[02:02:23] [SPEAKER_00]: my department and Rich's department

[02:02:25] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah

[02:02:28] [SPEAKER_02]: well now

[02:02:29] [SPEAKER_02]: I will say this

[02:02:32] [SPEAKER_02]: there's a reason why I moved to the beach

[02:02:35] [SPEAKER_02]: which means

[02:02:36] [SPEAKER_02]: if it's snow plow season

[02:02:42] [SPEAKER_04]: don't worry chief

[02:02:43] [SPEAKER_04]: Tennessee is a lot closer than Jersey

[02:02:44] [SPEAKER_04]: and we don't get much snow

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: okay man

[02:02:47] [SPEAKER_02]: I've got some friends in Tennessee too

[02:02:51] [SPEAKER_02]: fair enough

[02:02:52] [SPEAKER_03]: but we got a beach and it's pretty nice in the summertime

[02:02:54] [SPEAKER_00]: yeah we'll get you up here in the summer

[02:02:56] [SPEAKER_02]: hey

[02:02:57] [SPEAKER_02]: when it comes right down to it

[02:03:00] [SPEAKER_02]: I mean if you guys are interested man

[02:03:02] [SPEAKER_02]: we can make some for work

[02:03:04] [SPEAKER_02]: we can make some for work

[02:03:05] [SPEAKER_02]: there's no problem

[02:03:06] [SPEAKER_02]: I did keep a winter coat or two just in case

[02:03:13] [SPEAKER_03]: yeah you might need it

[02:03:14] [SPEAKER_03]: but we'll get you here in the summertime

[02:03:16] [SPEAKER_03]: a little more temperate

[02:03:18] [SPEAKER_03]: more to do

[02:03:20] [SPEAKER_02]: I'm ready man

[02:03:21] [SPEAKER_02]: let's do it

[02:03:22] [SPEAKER_02]: cool

[02:03:24] [SPEAKER_03]: we're gonna keep you on here but we're gonna cut the recording

[02:03:27] [SPEAKER_03]: okay

[02:03:28] [SPEAKER_03]: I think I speak for all of us it was an absolute pleasure

[02:03:30] [SPEAKER_03]: and I think you spoke from the heart

[02:03:33] [SPEAKER_03]: you had a lot of things that

[02:03:34] [SPEAKER_03]: all the young guys at the fire so have been looking for

[02:03:38] [SPEAKER_03]: and some of this older guys

[02:03:39] [SPEAKER_03]: might need to hear

[02:03:41] [SPEAKER_03]: what a great message you've got for the past two hours

[02:03:43] [SPEAKER_03]: thank you so much for being here

[02:03:45] [SPEAKER_02]: well thank you guys

[02:03:47] [SPEAKER_02]: it's been an absolute pleasure

[02:03:49] [SPEAKER_02]: and it's an honor to be associated

[02:03:51] [SPEAKER_02]: with y'all and try to

[02:03:53] [SPEAKER_02]: just help us move

[02:03:55] [SPEAKER_02]: in that good direction man

[02:03:56] [SPEAKER_02]: that's what it's all about

[02:03:58] [SPEAKER_02]: we gotta leave it there and we can have it

[02:04:01] [SPEAKER_04]: yes sir

[02:04:02] [SPEAKER_04]: thank you chief

[02:04:05] [SPEAKER_02]: see you guys

Episode # 3 - Chief Dennis Reilly

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